The Popes Have An Economically Liberal Bias

[PhuturePriest]

They didn't.  Proportionally violence has severely decreased with the advent of the state.  I don't mind libertarianism.  I once identified quite strongly with libertarian socialism.  That was years ago but I still value the insights and goals even if I don't consider it a fully realizable project.  

 

This is my current political compass map.

 

 

 

Economic Left/Right: -9.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.85

 

 

My point is that I do not have a problem with thoughtful libertarianism.  Even right libertarianism can have it's merits.  But this vulgar libertarianism is just dumb and reactionary.  States have curbed violence.  I'm sorry if that fact is ideologically unpalatable but it is true, demonstrably so.  And if you have any substantive understanding of game theory it should be pretty clear why that is so.  That doesn't mean that we should be perpetually beholden to our current legal arrangements.   I think we should be looking beyond the modern state and capitalism and attempting to transition to something more humane and systems that are more democratic and give people greater autonomy to determine their political and economic fates.  But just snidely dismissing states is just intellectually lazy.  

 

I'm not discrediting all governments. Some governments have curbed violence, as you say, and I agree just making a blanket statement about all governments being mean and pushy is a lazy way to go about something which requires much intellectual thought. But we can't have the government thinking it is the peacemaker of the world. That's how you end up with Mao-Zedung, who killed eighty million of his population by trying to be the ultimate peacemaker.

[Evangetholic]

The Church is left of center on economic matters in US terms. The end. More will be said no doubt, still, I'm quite correct.

[homeschoolmom]

I love the words "We like people surviving." Funny how man cannot possibly live without government. I wonder how the cavemen possibly survived without a guy with a nightstick telling them what to do...

They did. Have you never seen The Flintstones??

[PhuturePriest]

They did. Have you never seen The Flintstones??

 

Of course, of course. How could I forget that? Fred was pulled over all the time on that show.

[dairygirl4u2c]

the cavemen have a natural environment. a bum in a ghetto has no way to get food. he dont even have a place to plant corn. thats assuming he knows how to plant corn. the natural environment should allow for him to eat... and that means being able to find something to eat from the store etc.

bottomline though is we should at least give him a chance to plant corn to eat and we dont even do that.

 

this stuff shouldnt be debatable or said mocked "how survive without gov" etc...... when theres tons of quotes saying liberal government friiendly etc stuff

[dairygirl4u2c]

pope francis will have plenty to add to this by the time he's done being pope, i'm sure. 

[Peace]

There are different sorts of libertarianism.

And exactly what sort are you?

I have not thought about it much but Libertarianism strikes me as something that cannot be reconciled with Catholicism (the same seems to be true for most if not all current political/economic philosophies).

[Nihil Obstat]

And exactly what sort are you?

I have not thought about it much but Libertarianism strikes me as something that cannot be reconciled with Catholicism (the same seems to be true for most if not all current political/economic philosophies).

As of somewhat more recently, not really any type.

[dairygirl4u2c]

yeah libertarians are clowns. at least for maybe half of em, it's just a phase they are going through.