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Brother Adam

Supreme Court

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Brother Adam

How will the Supreme Court rule on same sex marriage, and what will the implications for Christian families, churches and businesses be in terms of retaliation for refusing to accept the Supreme Courts decision? What will the vote be for and against (9-0, 4-5, etc)? Or will the Supreme Court find some way to cop out?

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Winchester

I know what they won't rule: That the Federal government lacks any authority to speak on marriage, seeing as it's not one of the powers it was delegated.

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Fidei Defensor

I read today's arguments and I believe they will dismiss the first case, in relation to Proposition 8.  If that occurs, same-sex marriage will become legal in California again as it would default to the earlier ruling by the California Courts against the proposition.

 

I look forward to looking at the arguments in tomorrow's case.

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Brother Adam

I read today's arguments and I believe they will dismiss the first case, in relation to Proposition 8.  If that occurs, same-sex marriage will become legal in California again as it would default to the earlier ruling by the California Courts against the proposition.

 

I look forward to looking at the arguments in tomorrow's case.

 


What grounds will it be dismissed on? Why hear arguments at all if the intention is to dismiss it? Wouldn't it have the same effect if they simply did not take the case?

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4588686

I know what they won't rule: That the Federal government lacks any authority to speak on marriage, seeing as it's not one of the powers it was delegated.


They actually might. That's what people who support marriage rights hope they will do with DOMA

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T-fish

The question is when will Catholic priests be sued for discrimination if they don't perform 'civil unions' ?

 

If this was the Kingdom of Heaven, we wouldn't even be discussing this matter. 

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Fidei Defensor


What grounds will it be dismissed on? Why hear arguments at all if the intention is to dismiss it? Wouldn't it have the same effect if they simply did not take the case?

I imagine they took the case because they wanted to hear arguments to determine whether the defenders have the standing to defend it in court.

 

In practicality, dismissal would be effectively the same as if they hadn't taken the case at all.

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Fidei Defensor

and what will the implications for Christian families, churches and businesses be in terms of retaliation for refusing to accept the Supreme Courts decision? 

There won't be any major implications.  A nationwide legalization (which won't happen, not yet) would affect the legality of granting marriage licenses to same-sex couples. That's it.  "Traditional" Christian anythings will stay the same. It just turns out that not everyone believes the same things as Christians do, and don't want to be forced to comply with things they don't believe.

Edited by tardis ad astra

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IcePrincessKRS

The question is when will Catholic priests be sued for discrimination if they don't perform 'civil unions' ?

 

If this was the Kingdom of Heaven, we wouldn't even be discussing this matter. 

 

Well, this is earth and things operate a little differently here.

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Brother Adam

There won't be any major implications.  A nationwide legalization (which won't happen, not yet) would affect the legality of granting marriage licenses to same-sex couples. That's it.  "Traditional" Christian anythings will stay the same. It just turns out that not everyone believes the same things as Christians do, and don't want to be forced to comply with things they don't believe.

 


What about the parents who are being arrested and thrown into jail for attempting to pull their children out of classes who do not want them indoctrinated with homosexual propoganda (Massachusetts)? Or businesses that are sued for opting not to serve homosexual clients (such as the bed and breakfast or wedding photographer businesses)? Or priests and others who are brought up on hate crime charges for speaking against homosexuality in places like Canada? I see wide reaching implications of legislating liberal/libertine morality.

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Fidei Defensor


What about the parents who are being arrested and thrown into jail for attempting to pull their children out of classes who do not want them indoctrinated with homosexual propoganda (Massachusetts)? Or businesses that are sued for opting not to serve homosexual clients (such as the bed and breakfast or wedding photographer businesses)? Or priests and others who are brought up on hate crime charges for speaking against homosexuality in places like Canada? I see wide reaching implications of legislating liberal morality.

That has nothing to do with the legalization or not of same-sex marriage but rather the overly emotional reaction of individuals or groups.

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Brother Adam

That has nothing to do with the legalization or not of same-sex marriage but rather the overly emotional reaction of individuals or groups.

 

An over emotional response on the part of those being jailed/prosecuted, or the government?

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Fidei Defensor

An over emotional response on the part of those being jailed/prosecuted, or the government?

The government.  I don't agree with legal action. Anger, sure. Be angry about what you believe in. But forcing one set of beliefs by law? Nah.  And same-sex marriage approval isn't forcing one set of beliefs over another, it is allowing both beliefs to exist.

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GregorMendel


What about the parents who are being arrested and thrown into jail for attempting to pull their children out of classes who do not want them indoctrinated with homosexual propoganda (Massachusetts)? Or businesses that are sued for opting not to serve homosexual clients (such as the bed and breakfast or wedding photographer businesses)? Or priests and others who are brought up on hate crime charges for speaking against homosexuality in places like Canada? I see wide reaching implications of legislating liberal/libertine morality.


Would you please give us an example of each case?

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Kevin

Would you please give us an example of each case?

 

The first and third examples of these are absurd and would obviously be protected speech - unless the priest in question was urging people to lynch homosexuals. The example given simply states that the priest was called to a committee, not that he was charged with anything. Also, it has no bearing on the U.S. Supreme Court case.

 

The second isn't so cut and dry, since the Civil Rights Act ensures "full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, and accommodations of any place of public accommodation, without discrimination or segregation on the ground of race, color, religion, or national origin." This doesn't cover sexual orientation, though some states have included such language. But the state courts have already prohibited such discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation even without specific language in the law in the case of a restraunt having a policy of only seating opposite-sex couples in a semi-private booth, holding there was no legitimate business reason for the refusal of service, and so the discrimination was arbitrary and unlawful.

 

You might be able to argue, in the Bed and Breakfast case, that there would be a legitimate business concern - that fellow guests would be made uncomfortable, which would might lose the bed and breakfast business. But the issue is complicated - you can read more here. But even then, I think the decision in the Supreme Court on marriage will probably not effect the general Civl Rights laws of the states.

Edited by Kevin

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Nihil Obstat

Canada has a different legal system than the US.  

It does. But that was one of the examples Brother Adam mentioned specifically, and one which I am fairly familiar with.

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