Church/saint Teaching And Modesty

[MarysLittleFlower]

ah swimsuit thread... :P

 

Personally, I only tend to swim if it's just me and my family, I don't like public beaches. (it's also crowded :)). I also don't like showing thighs, not because I think I look so especially attractive but because I don't show thighs in everyday life so I don't want to show them at the beach either cause it's a public place. ;) I don't know how guys look at this but I want to make sure I'm not causing anyone to sin, beaches must already be difficult for guys who try to live chastely.

 

As to how not make this look frumpy... that's a whole journey for me, trying to figure that out. I came across this video by SheisCatholic and I think - although a few of these bathing suits are still a little revealing for me (the really short shorts/skirts), other ones (in the majority) seem more modest and pretty too :) I liked the ones that she posted links to in the websites and said she liked - the darker ones that are kind of athletic looking, I don't think they look frumpy, though people might kind of stare at them among a sea of bikinis... but oh well! It's a big improvement imo :)  since those bathing suits tend to be really pricey, she also gives some ideas on what you can do yourself - I was thinking of this too, just wearing stuff over a regular bathing suit. Instead of board shorts, one can also wear sort of leggings with a skirt (just important for it to be the right fabric so it's safe and not cold). I remember one time, I went swimming and wore something over my bathing suit (it was my first time trying that) and I was amazed at how warm it was in the water! I always felt really cold before.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0bAKcUDjAc

 

edit: hope this doesn't sound preachy, lol, I'm just sharing my own personal perspective on this!

Edited April 8, 2013 by MarysLittleFlower

[arfink]

Ugh, please. Don't take responsibility for guys looking at your thighs, that is their problem, not yours. It's absurd. If a guy is that messed up in his head, he needs to man up and take control of avoiding the near occasion of sin.

[franciscanheart]

I don't know why the focus is always on men anyway. I struggle at beaches and pools, too, and as my signature points out, I'm not a dude.

[MarysLittleFlower]

Ugh, please. Don't take responsibility for guys looking at your thighs, that is their problem, not yours. It's absurd. If a guy is that messed up in his head, he needs to man up and take control of avoiding the near occasion of sin.

 

I respectfully disagree. I listened to a sermon on this that really made sense to me.. the priest said that yes guys have a responsibility to reject occasions of sin, but if we present temptations to them, we are contributing to sin too. If a guy says yes to a sin, that's *his* choice, yes, but if a girl presented this battle to his mind in the first place: she also didn't act correctly. Both have a responsibility, and it's the most loving thing to do to make sure others are not tempted by us :) He distinguished between guys who might need help because they get immoral thoughts from things that are not at all immodest, and guys who are looking for occasions of sin, and guys who are trying to live chastely. For the last group: from what I heard, it seems like they do appreciate if girls don't show their thighs. It seems like this could be an occasion of sin for them, not because they're messed up, but because this area of the body is a little 'personal'. Maybe in our society, we are just desentitized... but wouldn't it be best to not contribute to the desentitization? :) (I'm not even sure if I spelled that correctly... lol). Anyway just wanted to share what this priest said. I can find the sermon if anyone is interested.

 

We all know there are parts of the body that shouldn't be shown to the public, and today we're told it's only the areas the bikini covers, but I read the traditional understanding is that it's also areas that are close to that. I think it's good to go back to the traditional understanding cause we can see the direction our society is heading in.

I don't know why the focus is always on men anyway. I struggle at beaches and pools, too, and as my signature points out, I'm not a dude.

Didn't mean to leave out the girls :) personally the beach is a distraction for me

Edited April 8, 2013 by MarysLittleFlower

[arfink]

I respectfully disagree. I listened to a sermon on this that really made sense to me.. the priest said that yes guys have a responsibility to reject occasions of sin, but if we present temptations to them, we are contributing to sin too. If a guy says yes to a sin, that's *his* choice, yes, but if a girl presented this battle to his mind in the first place: she also didn't act correctly. Both have a responsibility, and it's the most loving thing to do to make sure others are not tempted by us :) He distinguished between guys who might need help because they get immoral thoughts from things that are not at all immodest, and guys who are looking for occasions of sin, and guys who are trying to live chastely. For the last group: from what I heard, it seems like they do appreciate if girls don't show their thighs. It seems like this could be an occasion of sin for them, not because they're messed up, but because this area of the body is a little 'personal'. Maybe in our society, we are just desentitized... but wouldn't it be best to not contribute to the desentitization? :) (I'm not even sure if I spelled that correctly... lol). Anyway just wanted to share what this priest said. I can find the sermon if anyone is interested.

Didn't mean to leave out the girls :) personally the beach is a distraction for me

 

As a guy who is trying to live chastely, I can honestly say I don't mind if you want to show thighs. Really, I don't care one fig. I do have standards of modesty, and I haven't seen any suits in here that offend that yet.

[the171]

Sometimes even priests are wrong, MLF. Yes, we shouldn't go around in our skivvies, but sometimes we present temptation without even realizing it. If I dressed only to make sure I would not lead a man to sin, I wouldn't leave my house ever.

[MarysLittleFlower]

As a guy who is trying to live chastely, I can honestly say I don't mind if you want to show thighs. Really, I don't care one fig. I do have standards of modesty, and I haven't seen any suits in here that offend that yet.

Okay, maybe it depends on the guy, because I've heard other guys say that it does cause them to stumble in a way. (they're normal guys too). :)

 

I think maybe my point is just that we're all kind of used to seeing so much of the human body... I don't mean that as a statement against you personally. I am, too, and all of us in our society, because the fashions of our day are so immodest.

 

I don't know... for me it's not like this because the human body is bad... but because of original sin, and because of how lust takes something that is good and made by God and twists it. You know how in the paintings of Adam and Eve they are trying to cover themselves with leaves.. but what i only realized a while ago is that after this, God made them different clothing, we can imagine it was pretty modest. Modesty protects chastity. Certain things only to be shown to a spouse...not publically. In our society, practically everything is shown.

 

Our Lady of Fatima said there would be fashions that would greatly offend God, and I don't know to me it seems like this came true last century? and in our day...

Edited April 8, 2013 by MarysLittleFlower

[mortify]

But yea this stuff is immodest per catholic standards

[the171]

THERE ARE NO SET STANDARDS FOR MODESTY IN CATHOLIC TRADITION.

[dominicansoul]

Our Lady of Fatima said there would be fashions that would greatly offend God, and I don't know to me it seems like this came true last century? and in our day...

 

Yes, Our Lady prophesied, and we've seen some of the fads and fashions that have come and gone and continue.  There are certain fashions that greatly offend God.  And it is our responsibility not to take part in sinful fashions.  It is our responsibility to dress modestly, not only for our chastity but for others'.  This is nothing new, its' been a teaching of the Church for two millenia...

 

With that said...

 

I think what good catholic people get bent out of shape about, is they don't want to feel guilt if they like to wear something that makes them look cute.  Or, since they are swimming after all, why do they have to cover up so much?  It takes a balanced approach.  You don't have to wear a mattress cover at the beach.  Its not your fault if you show a little skin and some pervert looks at you and sins.  It doesn't take much for someone who has sexual problems to sin.  They can see a woman all covered up and sin... that's not the woman's fault (or the man's fault, there are women perverts after all.)  

 

And not all people who struggle with chastity at the beach are perverts either.  I'm not saying that.  I just think those of us who do struggle when they go to the beach and see members of the opposite sex in their swimming clothes, we have to do something about that ourselves.  I don't blame the men for wearing what they wear to the beach...

 

 

Modesty just takes practical common sense... 

[franciscanheart]

I hate the word "pervert".

[mortify]

Actually there are set standards ... albeit neglected...

[beatitude]

I respectfully disagree. I listened to a sermon on this that really made sense to me.. the priest said that yes guys have a responsibility to reject occasions of sin, but if we present temptations to them, we are contributing to sin too. If a guy says yes to a sin, that's *his* choice, yes, but if a girl presented this battle to his mind in the first place: she also didn't act correctly.

 
The other night, on Twitter, I mentioned the medical treatment that I'm having on my feet and I got a sexual message from a foot fetishist asking to see the photos. I am not taking responsibility for causing him to sin just because I happened to mention my feet on Twitter. (Even though, now I look at them more closely, the toes on my left foot especially are seriously hot.)
 
Saying that we 'present temptations' to guys makes it sound as though we are walking around the beach with one of those giant hostess trolleys and handing out temptations like ice creams. Guys might find a lot of stuff sexually arousing - and it is not our responsibility to become telepathic and try to preempt that. (It's also an impossibility. Once I heard a secular guy in Israel saying that he is attracted to the orthodox Jewish girls because their clothing makes them 'more tempting to uncover and conquer'. Eugh.) Personally I think asking yourself 'What will a guy think of this?' is a really unhelpful question to ask yourself when you're choosing your clothes. There is actually a similarity between dressing to seduce a guy and dressing to try and prevent them from having erotic thoughts about you - you are putting men at the centre of your reasoning, and they do not belong there. That place is reserved for God.
 
It doesn't always occur to people, teenage girls especially, but a hyper-focus on modesty can be just as objectifying to women as showing off as much flesh as possible without getting arrested under the public decency laws. For instance, in your current modesty thread in VS, we have people talking about the gratitude they have received from male friends now that their shoulders are covered up. To be perfectly honest, if any guy friend of mine started thanking me for my covered shoulders I would conclude that the most Christian thing I could do for him would be to tell him that he needs to get a hobby. Urgently.
 
Modesty is first and foremost an attitude of the heart. I have noticed that many Catholic women (again, particularly teenagers and young women) go through a phase where it is all about the hemlines and the clothes shopping and the chapel veils. That is normal. But it also doesn't go deep enough. I love open-water swimming, and when I go to the lake or the sea, I think about enjoying the water and God's creation. I choose swimwear based on what is practical for long-distance swimming, not based on what a guy may or may not think of my legs. It is my hope that other people would have the same focus when they go to enjoy a day at the beach. It is not a sign of purity in heart if you are thinking about sex and sexuality all the time - and that's essentially what we are doing if we spend ages obsessing about how people might react to us in our swimwear. It's the opposite.

[Lil Red]

The other night, on Twitter, I mentioned the medical treatment that I'm having on my feet and I got a sexual message from a foot fetishist asking to see the photos. I am not taking responsibility for causing him to sin just because I happened to mention my feet on Twitter. (Even though, now I look at them more closely, the toes on my left foot especially are seriously hot.)

 

Saying that we 'present temptations' to guys makes it sound as though we are walking around the beach with one of those giant hostess trolleys and handing out temptations like ice creams. Guys might find a lot of stuff sexually arousing - and it is not our responsibility to become telepathic and try to preempt that. (It's also an impossibility. Once I heard a secular guy in Israel saying that he is attracted to the orthodox Jewish girls because their clothing makes them 'more tempting to uncover and conquer'. Eugh.) Personally I think asking yourself 'What will a guy think of this?' is a really unhelpful question to ask yourself when you're choosing your clothes. There is actually a similarity between dressing to seduce a guy and dressing to try and prevent them from having erotic thoughts about you - you are putting men at the centre of your reasoning, and they do not belong there. That place is reserved for God.

 

It doesn't always occur to people, teenage girls especially, but a hyper-focus on modesty can be just as objectifying to women as showing off as much flesh as possible without getting arrested under the public decency laws. For instance, in your current modesty thread in VS, we have people talking about the gratitude they have received from male friends now that their shoulders are covered up. To be perfectly honest, if any guy friend of mine started thanking me for my covered shoulders I would conclude that the most Christian thing I could do for him would be to tell him that he needs to get a hobby. Urgently.

 

Modesty is first and foremost an attitude of the heart. I have noticed that many Catholic women (again, particularly teenagers and young women) go through a phase where it is all about the hemlines and the clothes shopping and the chapel veils. That is normal. But it also doesn't go deep enough. I love open-water swimming, and when I go to the lake or the sea, I think about enjoying the water and God's creation. I choose swimwear based on what is practical for long-distance swimming, not based on what a guy may or may not think of my legs. It is my hope that other people would have the same focus when they go to enjoy a day at the beach. It is not a sign of purity in heart if you are thinking about sex and sexuality all the time - and that's essentially what we are doing if we spend ages obsessing about how people might react to us in our swimwear. It's the opposite.

 

:woot: KICK ARSE POST!! :woot:

[EmilyAnn]

The other night, on Twitter, I mentioned the medical treatment that I'm having on my feet and I got a sexual message from a foot fetishist asking to see the photos. I am not taking responsibility for causing him to sin just because I happened to mention my feet on Twitter. (Even though, now I look at them more closely, the toes on my left foot especially are seriously hot.)
 
Saying that we 'present temptations' to guys makes it sound as though we are walking around the beach with one of those giant hostess trolleys and handing out temptations like ice creams. Guys might find a lot of stuff sexually arousing - and it is not our responsibility to become telepathic and try to preempt that. (It's also an impossibility. Once I heard a secular guy in Israel saying that he is attracted to the orthodox Jewish girls because their clothing makes them 'more tempting to uncover and conquer'. Eugh.) Personally I think asking yourself 'What will a guy think of this?' is a really unhelpful question to ask yourself when you're choosing your clothes. There is actually a similarity between dressing to seduce a guy and dressing to try and prevent them from having erotic thoughts about you - you are putting men at the centre of your reasoning, and they do not belong there. That place is reserved for God.
 
It doesn't always occur to people, teenage girls especially, but a hyper-focus on modesty can be just as objectifying to women as showing off as much flesh as possible without getting arrested under the public decency laws. For instance, in your current modesty thread in VS, we have people talking about the gratitude they have received from male friends now that their shoulders are covered up. To be perfectly honest, if any guy friend of mine started thanking me for my covered shoulders I would conclude that the most Christian thing I could do for him would be to tell him that he needs to get a hobby. Urgently.
 
Modesty is first and foremost an attitude of the heart. I have noticed that many Catholic women (again, particularly teenagers and young women) go through a phase where it is all about the hemlines and the clothes shopping and the chapel veils. That is normal. But it also doesn't go deep enough. I love open-water swimming, and when I go to the lake or the sea, I think about enjoying the water and God's creation. I choose swimwear based on what is practical for long-distance swimming, not based on what a guy may or may not think of my legs. It is my hope that other people would have the same focus when they go to enjoy a day at the beach. It is not a sign of purity in heart if you are thinking about sex and sexuality all the time - and that's essentially what we are doing if we spend ages obsessing about how people might react to us in our swimwear. It's the opposite.

You are so awe.some. 

Modesty is a virtue not a calculation of how much skin you are bareing. 
 
I think some people here would have a heart attack if they went to Brazil and saw what is considered acceptable dress.