Jump to content
graciandelamadrededios

Carmelite Customs

Recommended Posts

graciandelamadrededios    398
graciandelamadrededios

Photos of the Discalced Carmelite Nuns in Czech Republic - Extern Sister

 

6-3-b.jpg

 

6-2-b.jpg

6-0-b.jpg

 

Edited by graciandelamadrededios

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Chiquitunga    817
Chiquitunga

Monastero+di+Legnano+fratie+monache.jpg

 

As you can see from the photos above, the novices are wearing the wooden crosses outside the scapulars just like the solemn professed nuns.  This photo is from Legnano Carmel which photos are all available in google.

 

True, but we don't know for sure if those white veils are Novices or in First Vows. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
graciandelamadrededios    398
graciandelamadrededios

True, but we don't know for sure if those white veils are Novices or in First Vows. 

 

I asked Prague and Dacice Carmel for photos of Novices and they sent the photos of novices wearing the wooden crosses outside the scapulars - so it means the novices wears the wooden crosses just like the professed nuns.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
graciandelamadrededios    398
graciandelamadrededios

 

RULE AND CONSTITUTIONS

 

OF THE

 

DISCALCED NUNS

 

OF THE

 

ORDER OF OUR BLESSED LADY OF

 

MOUNT CARMEL

 

 

 

1928

 

 

 

CHAPTER VIII

 

 

ON THE FAST AND CLOTHING

 

 

66. From the Feast of the Exaltation of the Holy Cross in September until Easter Sunday, the Sisters are to fast except on Sundays, Christmas Day and the three following days, New Year’s Day, the Feast of the Epiphany, and the Feast of our holy Mother, St. Teresa of Jesus, and of St. John of the Cross.  They are never to eat meat, except through necessity, and in the cases mentioned in the Rule.

 

67.  On Fasts of the Church, and every Friday of the year, except from Easter to Pentecost, we forbid the use of eggs and white-meats in the refectory.  The Prioress can, however, dispense in this mater in the case of the sick and of those to whom fish is injurious for other reasons, and then those who are permitted to take eggs and white-meats shall eat out of the refectory or apart from the others.

 

68.  For the Habit the Nuns are to use a coarse cloth called Serge, of a brown colour.

 

69.  The Habit is to be as spare as possible; as also the sleeves, which are to be of the same width top and bottom and without pleats.  The Habit is to be of equal length all around, and should reach to the feet.

70.  The Scapular is to be of the same material, and about three inches shorter than the Habit.

 

71.  The Choir-mantle also is to be of serge, but white, and equal to the Scapular in length.  For this mantle as little cloth as possible should be used in order to avoid superfluity.

 

72.   The Scapular is to be worn over the coif.  The coif is to be made of coarse linen, without pleats.

 

73.  The tunics and sheets are also to be made of serge.

 

74.  The sandals are to be made of hemp; and the stockings, which for decency are worn, of coarse linen, woollen yarn.

 

75.   The pillow cases are likewise to be wollen, and in case of necessity, linen.

 

76.  The beds are to be without mattresses, but with palliase only, for it is found by experience that this is sufficient even for the weak and infirm.

 

77.  The beds are to be without curtains or hangings; but, in case of necessity, a screen of matting or coarse cloth, or of some other similar material of small value may be used, with the permission of the Prioress.

 

78.  Each Sister shall have her bed separate.  They are not to use carpets, curtains, or cushions, except for the church, as things are not becoming for Religious.

 

79.  All these points belong to the observance of the Order; they are distinctive features of it and ought to be observed as such.  They are here mentioned in detail lest relaxation should even cause these things to be forgotten which are of obligation in our Order.

 

80.  The Habits and bed-coverlets are to be alike brown, without least addition of any other colour.  They are not to wear fur-lined garments, but in case of infirmity they may use extra woolen under-garment.  They are to keep their hair cut, in order not to lose time in dressing it.

 

81.  They are not to use looking-glasses, nor are they to keep any curious object, but are to live in complete self-contempt.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Chiquitunga    817
Chiquitunga

I asked Prague and Dacice Carmel for photos of Novices and they sent the photos of novices wearing the wooden crosses outside the scapulars - so it means the novices wears the wooden crosses just like the professed nuns.

 

Okay, great! Thanks for letting me know. :like: We gotta solve this mystery!!! :detective: lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
graciandelamadrededios    398
graciandelamadrededios

Okay, great! Thanks for letting me know. :like: We gotta solve this mystery!!! :detective: lol

 

I agree!  Its time to get some solid answers on why these Carmels who originated from Genoa (Genova) Carmels wears wooden crosses pinned outside the scapulars.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Chiquitunga    817
Chiquitunga

Hi Chiqui!

 

We can only speculate at this point. 

 

A friend told me that it could be a custom of the Mantuan Reform and the Nuns kept it as a sign that there Carmel has been reformed following the Constitutions of St. Teresa.

 

I also think, just like you, that the wooden cross worn outside the scapular was to signify that the Carmelite Nuns in Italy are under the Italian Congregation and are independent from the Spanish Congregation.

 

Very interesting! I had never heard of the Mantuan Reform! See, I'm really no expert on Carmel. A short article on Blessed Baptist of Mantua, http://www.carmelites.net/news/the-glueckert-filesblessed-baptist-mantua-1447-1516/  Do you know though, were there Nuns under the Mantuan Reform? It's seems it was just Friars.

Edited by Chiquitunga

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
graciandelamadrededios    398
graciandelamadrededios

My friend who is a professor of Church History shared this information regarding Mantuan Reform.  I guess it was extended to Nuns as well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
graciandelamadrededios    398
graciandelamadrededios

Regarding the unique custom of the nuns in Italy (& some of their foundations) pinning wooden crosses to their scapulars, here are some Italian Discalced Carmelite Nuns' documents from the 17th century. I skimmed through them a bit and tried to look out for anything regarding this practice, from the little I could understand, but didn't find anything yet.

 

https://play.google.com/store/books/details?id=VYufxZZlp5sC&rdid=book-VYufxZZlp5sC&rdot=1

 

https://play.google.com/store/books/details/Carmelitane_scalze_Ordinario_o_ceremoniale_delle_m?id=GwJlJJdpZ0AC&feature=more_from_author

 

https://play.google.com/store/books/details/Carmelitane_scalze_Compendio_de_gli_essercizii_che?id=7sd1BylvbNYC&feature=more_from_author&rdid=book-7sd1BylvbNYC&rdot=1

 

Gracian, again, I'll let you know if I ever find anything on this. My guess is that perhaps it was something adopted when the Spanish and Italian OCDs split into two congregations in like 1600 (& didn't reunite until somewhat recently) But maybe as you mentioned once, it was something the Genoa nuns adopted at the beginning of their foundation in 1590 as a sign of their missionary spirit, since they were the first OCD Carmel founded outside Spain...  :detective:

 

Hi Chiqui!

 

I tried the links you provided but I am unable to accept it.  The error message said that its not available for the Philippines.

 

I wonder what these 17th Century Carmelite documents are?  Ceremonial or Custom Book?

 

Gracian

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Chiquitunga    817
Chiquitunga

Hi Chiqui!

 

I tried the links you provided but I am unable to accept it.  The error message said that its not available for the Philippines.

 

I wonder what these 17th Century Carmelite documents are?  Ceremonial or Custom Book?

 

Gracian

 

Oh, that's too bad it's not available for the Philippines! I've heard of that happening for videos, but this is the first time I've heard of a restriction on a document like this. Well, it's all in Italian (& Latin) anyway. The names of the documents were...

 

Regola, e constitutioni delle religiose primitiue Scalze dell'ordine della gloriosa vergine Maria del monte Carmelo

 

Ordinario, o ceremoniale delle monache scalze dell'ordine della B.ma vergine Maria del Monte Carmelo. Conforme al rito della santa Chiesa romana

 

Compendio de gli essercizii che si praticano nelli novitiati delle monache Carmelitane scalze

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
graciandelamadrededios    398
graciandelamadrededios

Oh, that's too bad it's not available for the Philippines! I've heard of that happening for videos, but this is the first time I've heard of a restriction on a document like this. Well, it's all in Italian (& Latin) anyway. The names of the documents were...

 

Regola, e constitutioni delle religiose primitiue Scalze dell'ordine della gloriosa vergine Maria del monte Carmelo

 

Ordinario, o ceremoniale delle monache scalze dell'ordine della B.ma vergine Maria del Monte Carmelo. Conforme al rito della santa Chiesa romana

 

Compendio de gli essercizii che si praticano nelli novitiati delle monache Carmelitane scalze

 

Too bad I cannot view them but I guess this document is similar if not the same with the English version of the Ceremonial and the Rule and Constitutions before Vatican II.

 

It would be best to look into an Italian Custom Book before Vatican II particularly the earliest documents of Genoa Carmel which according to Prague Carmel, the custom of pinning a wooden cross outside the scapular came from.

 

 

Gracian

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
graciandelamadrededios    398
graciandelamadrededios

Speaking of history of Carmel, I will soon received 4 volumes copies of History of Carmel.  I hope to read about the various reforms prior to the one initiated by St. Teresa of Jesus.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ACS67    131
ACS67

This may be a strange question and I am not sure this is the correct thread to ask it but....what is the "typical" Carmelite "diet"?  I know each monastery is going to be different so I don't expect anyone to give me exact menus!  LOL!  I was just wondering about the sizes of meals.  For example Poor Clares typically eat a very small breakfast, really just bread and coffee, then a good size lunch, which is their main meal, and a small dinner (collation).  Are the Carmelites similar? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Chiquitunga    817
Chiquitunga

For example Poor Clares typically eat a very small breakfast, really just bread and coffee, then a good size lunch, which is their main meal, and a small dinner (collation).  Are the Carmelites similar? 

 

Yes, Discalced Carmelites are very similar. It also depends on the time of the year. Their diet is a little more austere, if that's the right term here, from September 14th (Feast of the Exaltation of the Holy Cross) until Easter. Outside of that time, their breakfast is a little larger/has more variety like fruit, a sweet roll (depending on the particular Carmel of course) and collation is a little larger also. 

 

Speaking of diets, the JMJ Carmels (Valparaiso, Elysburg & Canyon) actually do not allow caffeinated drinks at all. Their coffee and tea is all decaf. They made this decision because some of the Sisters in Valparaiso were having trouble sleeping. I have never heard of this at any other Carmel however. Usually a cup of caffeinated coffee can be taken at breakfast and/or dinner (the mid-day larger meal)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
graciandelamadrededios    398
graciandelamadrededios

I have no experience living in a Carmelite Community so the best person to answer this is Chiqui.

 

However, based on what I read based on various Carmelite documents, the custom before Vatican II that it, the food is weighed out. 

 

After Vatican II, each Nun can get as much food she needs depending on her age, size and her work in the monastery.

 

In Philippine Carmels, the food is served buffet style; even in the most conservative Carmel in the here which is Lucena Carmel.  This information came from a Prioress in the Philippines.

 

I cannot help but quote Mother Catherine Thomas of the Divine Providence, D.C. in her book "My Beloved: the Story of a Carmelite Nun" she wrote: "eat well in order to fast well."

 

Edited by graciandelamadrededios

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
VeniJesuAmorMi    510
VeniJesuAmorMi

Here is a beautiful custom to share. I read this today from the book, "Following the Path of Divine Love." (Spanish Carmelite customs; I don't know if they is done in other Carmels with Mexican or French customs.)

 

"When a nun is dying, it is the custom in Carmel to remove everything from her cell except an image of Our Lady of Mount Carmel. This will remind the ill Sister that the Mother of God is there to help and protect her and to fulfill the saying of the ancient monks: "from the cell to heaven!" - an expression of the firm hope that fills her soul at the end of life."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×