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point5

Goodbye Good Men

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point5    2
point5
My friend who is in seminary and will be a priest in a couple years recomended it. It's not your typical Catholic book. Anyone got comments?

pax
-Kiel

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DojoGrant    0
DojoGrant
I've heard about it. I hear it talks pretty badly about Notre Dame Seminary in New Orleans, where I will most likely end up.

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Spiritual_Arsonist    0
Spiritual_Arsonist
The book is probably accurate. It does paint a dark picture I think. The information given for Sacred Heart Major Seminay is also a little skewed I believe.

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Pio Nono    0
Pio Nono
JMJ
6/7 - Tenth Monday

I know for a fact that the book's discussion of Quigley High School Seminary in Chicago is entirely inaccurate, as if he did no research whatsoever. There were two of them (Quigley North and Quigley South), one of which closed shortly after the Council. The reasons it closed were rising costs, as well as some racial tension. Mr. Rose attributes its closing entirely to sexual scandal [i]that did not occur[/i].

I wouldn't trust Rose any farther than I can throw him.

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Fides_et_Ratio    1
Fides_et_Ratio
The Pontifical College Josephinum (PCJ) is an awesome seminary. Pretty much every priest (deacon and seminarian) I've met from there is the most knowledgeable, confident, pious, orthodox, and humble priest (deacon or seminarian) that I've met!

I haven't read the book, but I've heard it was pretty harsh on all the major seminaries. But perhaps the books criticisms are something to just keep at the back of your mind.

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point5    2
point5
I have now been recommended this book by multiple priests and am about to begin reading it.

Pio Nono - how can you for sure say why it closed?

-Kiel

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Pio Nono    0
Pio Nono
JMJ
6/8 - Tenth Tuesday

Kiel,

Because I have facts behind me - talk to the people at Quigley and they'll you why the school closed. Talk to current and former students - there's nothing to hide at Quigley. Rose admits that his comments on Quigley aren't backed up by fact, but are mere conjecture. No one can assert that conjecture is fact, and yet Rose attempts to do so.

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popestpiusx    3
popestpiusx
[quote name='Pio Nono' date='Jun 8 2004, 12:39 PM'] JMJ
6/8 - Tenth Tuesday

Kiel,

Because I have facts behind me - talk to the people at Quigley and they'll you why the school closed. Talk to current and former students - there's nothing to hide at Quigley. Rose admits that his comments on Quigley aren't backed up by fact, but are mere conjecture. No one can assert that conjecture is fact, and yet Rose attempts to do so. [/quote]
Perhaps there is more to the story than the people at Quigley are letting on? Is it also not possible that some folks could go there and not know about certain things going on while they were there? I can name situations where tis has happened before (actually quite a few). Perhaps you should question Mr. Rose about his accusations and allow him to either defend or retract what he has written before you start accusing him of dishonesty.

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Pio Nono    0
Pio Nono
JMJ
6/8 - Tenth Tuesday

Mr. Rose was not saying that things went on at Quigley - he said that the seminary [i]shut down[/i] because of sexual scandal. Something like that would have become public, and yet nothing has seemed to surface.

Simply put: Mr. Rose must earn my trust.

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popestpiusx    3
popestpiusx
ONe would have thought all these scandals would have been public much earlier than they did as well. The lack of publicity does not prove nor disprove the story.

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popestpiusx    3
popestpiusx
[url="http://www.newoxfordreview.com/2002/dec02/michaelsrose.html"]http://www.newoxfordreview.com/2002/dec02/michaelsrose.html[/url]
[url="http://www.cruxnews.com/goodbye.html"]http://www.cruxnews.com/goodbye.html[/url]
[url="http://www.cruxnews.com/dalevree.html"]http://www.cruxnews.com/dalevree.html[/url]
[url="http://www.cruxnews.com/crisis.html"]http://www.cruxnews.com/crisis.html[/url]

Here are some defences of the book. Do you have any documentation to support what you said? I would be more than interested to read it. Also, it seems that if the Quigley thing were so obviously true (if we are relying on publicity for truth value) would it not seem like everyone would have ben jumping all over Rose for this fabrication? But not one word from the public or in print questioning the accusation???

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popestpiusx    3
popestpiusx
For further questions e-mail Mr. Rose yourself. Let him defend it (or retract it if it is not true):

editor@cruxnews.com

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Guest Patriarch   
Guest Patriarch
What kills me about "Good-bye Good Men," the story it tells, and the whole sexual scandal is that The Wanderer has been on this story for the better part of thirty years, and is *still* on it. In fact, it is one reason I cancelled my subscription. It was making me angry every week and there wasn't a thing I could do about the situation. Nevertheless, it is an excellent paper with an undeserved reputation.

On the other hand, Our Sunday Visitor, the National Register and the Chicago New World are good papers, and they have the added advantage of only printing as much truth as I can handle.

My brother died of AIDS in 1993. His mistake? Entering St. Mary's in Baltimore in the Fall of 1970, months after my father died. Apparently he was emotionally vulnerable and excellent prey. An upper classman took him out and got him drunk and etc. That May while this upper classman was being ordained deacon, Art was sitting on the sill of his fourth floor window on the verge of pushing off. The only reason he didn't is because of my mother. He dropped out of the seminary, though.

We didn't learn all of this for a long time. In fact, I didn't even know for sure he was homosexual till 1976. Anyway, all of this impacted our family terribly and is *still* impacting it. We didn't hire a lawyer. We didn't sue the Church. We didn't hold a press conference. But I have another brother and two sisters whose lives would have been very different if the administration at St. Mary's in Baltimore had been on the ball in 1970.

Just for laughs, take a virtual tour of that institution. The place is a country club. As I recall the students have private rooms with internet access. How smart is that? What is the reason for the bar, exactly? My impression- it is only that- is that this institution is very capable of turning out urbane priests, but is that the need of the hour? Where are the seminaries that are turning out holy priests? For all I know, St. Mary's might be one of them, but I doubt it.

Anyway, say a prayer for my family, and for vocations, too...

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Pontifex    71
Pontifex
Goodbye Good Men

Sigh! It's like a virus that won't leave.

Trust me, it is completely inflamatory. I would put it on the same wave length as The National Enquirer or The Sun. I have a friend who is featured in Chapter 4, I believe. (Joe K.) Regardless, I knew why he left seminary and I know what he said in the book. They are not the same. Mundelein is talked about in that book but and although some of the information is factual it is mixed with lies and deception.

Read the Confessions or something. It is wasted paper.

Fr. Pontifex

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Pontifex    71
Pontifex
Furthermore,

Always be leary of Conspiracy Theories.

The Evil One is called the Accuser of the Brethren. This type of book seems to mimic that behavior. I have seen nothing good come from someone reading this book. And as we know, judge something by the fruit.

Peace,

Fr. Pontifex

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popestpiusx    3
popestpiusx
[quote name='popestpiusx' date='Jun 8 2004, 07:01 PM'] [url="http://www.newoxfordreview.com/2002/dec02/michaelsrose.html"]http://www.newoxfordreview.com/2002/dec02/michaelsrose.html[/url]
[url="http://www.cruxnews.com/goodbye.html"]http://www.cruxnews.com/goodbye.html[/url]
[url="http://www.cruxnews.com/dalevree.html"]http://www.cruxnews.com/dalevree.html[/url]
[url="http://www.cruxnews.com/crisis.html"]http://www.cruxnews.com/crisis.html[/url]

Here are some defences of the book. Do you have any documentation to support what you said? I would be more than interested to read it. Also, it seems that if the Quigley thing were so obviously true (if we are relying on publicity for truth value) would it not seem like everyone would have ben jumping all over Rose for this fabrication? But not one word from the public or in print questioning the accusation??? [/quote]
I say again:

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popestpiusx    3
popestpiusx
I can assure you of one thing, if there is faulty information it is not out of malise. If anything, merely an overzealous (and imprudent) quest for the truth. The problem is there. Even Bishop Gregory (no conservative he) admited that there is a huge problem with homosexuality in the seminaries today. I think it is becoming more and more obvious as the days go by. If you want to dispute individual stories from the book then e-mail Mr. Rose. He is an upstanding character. He he has stated something incorrect, he will admit it.

Here is his e-mail:
editor@cruxnews.com

Do not accuse him of malise until you give him a chance to defend or retract what he has writtten. This is demanded by Christian Charity. This is the way the Vatican handeled things for centuries (when the index was in force). Should we do any less?

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dUSt    6,232
dUSt
After reading the response to one of his reviews, this Michael S Rose guy doesn't seem very charitable at all. I don't think I'll be reading his book.

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dUSt    6,232
dUSt
[quote name='popestpiusx' date='Jun 10 2004, 12:39 PM'] Here are some defences of the book. Do you have any documentation to support what you said? I would be more than interested to read it. [/quote]
Fr just gave you a personal testimony of knowing someone in the book who was misrepresented. How much more proof do you need?

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popestpiusx    3
popestpiusx
[quote name='dUSt' date='Jun 10 2004, 02:00 PM'] Fr just gave you a personal testimony of knowing someone in the book who was misrepresented. How much more proof do you need? [/quote]
Father's testimony only proves (if it proves anything) that there could be misinformation in the book. It does not prove mailicious intent one the part of Rose. As I said, e-mail him. How difficult is that. Ask him yourself instead of merely accusing him of things. You have no idea where he got his information. If it can be proven to be incorrect then I have no doubt that he will correct it or retract it. So far, those who have attempted to discredit the book publicly have failed miserably. The people they have tried to use as evidence have ended up being damning to the argument. If you (or Father) have something better to offer, then by all means go for it. But don't just hide here in phatmass and accuse him of things without giving him a chance to respond.

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