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point5

Goodbye Good Men

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popestpiusx
[quote name='popestpiusx' date='Jun 8 2004, 07:01 PM'] [url="http://www.newoxfordreview.com/2002/dec02/michaelsrose.html"]http://www.newoxfordreview.com/2002/dec02/michaelsrose.html[/url]
[url="http://www.cruxnews.com/goodbye.html"]http://www.cruxnews.com/goodbye.html[/url]
[url="http://www.cruxnews.com/dalevree.html"]http://www.cruxnews.com/dalevree.html[/url]
[url="http://www.cruxnews.com/crisis.html"]http://www.cruxnews.com/crisis.html[/url]

Here are some defences of the book. Do you have any documentation to support what you said? I would be more than interested to read it. Also, it seems that if the Quigley thing were so obviously true (if we are relying on publicity for truth value) would it not seem like everyone would have ben jumping all over Rose for this fabrication? But not one word from the public or in print questioning the accusation??? [/quote]
I say again:

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popestpiusx
I can assure you of one thing, if there is faulty information it is not out of malise. If anything, merely an overzealous (and imprudent) quest for the truth. The problem is there. Even Bishop Gregory (no conservative he) admited that there is a huge problem with homosexuality in the seminaries today. I think it is becoming more and more obvious as the days go by. If you want to dispute individual stories from the book then e-mail Mr. Rose. He is an upstanding character. He he has stated something incorrect, he will admit it.

Here is his e-mail:
editor@cruxnews.com

Do not accuse him of malise until you give him a chance to defend or retract what he has writtten. This is demanded by Christian Charity. This is the way the Vatican handeled things for centuries (when the index was in force). Should we do any less?

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dUSt
After reading the response to one of his reviews, this Michael S Rose guy doesn't seem very charitable at all. I don't think I'll be reading his book.

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dUSt
[quote name='popestpiusx' date='Jun 10 2004, 12:39 PM'] Here are some defences of the book. Do you have any documentation to support what you said? I would be more than interested to read it. [/quote]
Fr just gave you a personal testimony of knowing someone in the book who was misrepresented. How much more proof do you need?

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popestpiusx
[quote name='dUSt' date='Jun 10 2004, 02:00 PM'] Fr just gave you a personal testimony of knowing someone in the book who was misrepresented. How much more proof do you need? [/quote]
Father's testimony only proves (if it proves anything) that there could be misinformation in the book. It does not prove mailicious intent one the part of Rose. As I said, e-mail him. How difficult is that. Ask him yourself instead of merely accusing him of things. You have no idea where he got his information. If it can be proven to be incorrect then I have no doubt that he will correct it or retract it. So far, those who have attempted to discredit the book publicly have failed miserably. The people they have tried to use as evidence have ended up being damning to the argument. If you (or Father) have something better to offer, then by all means go for it. But don't just hide here in phatmass and accuse him of things without giving him a chance to respond.

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dUSt
I'm not accusing the author, I'm accusing the book. There's nothing wrong with an accusation when it's based on fact. There is something wrong with a [b]false[/b] accusation.

The fact that the book contains one error, in my opinion, discredits the entire thing--and I apply this to everything I read.

I've only made two implifications:

1. Michael Rose is uncharitable (a personal opinion formed after reading his reply to one of his reviews)
2. The book contains errors (based on the fact that I know and trust Fr Pontifex personally)

Please show me where I've made a false accusation.

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daugher-of-Mary
I haven't read the book, so I will make no comment on it. However, it's not fair to say that there is a huge problem with homosexuality in *all* seminaries, not even in most of them. There are some liberal seminaries, and they are simply not attracting young men. The more orthodox seminaries are pumping out priests who are in love with God, His Church, and devoted to the Blessed Virgin. Seminary is no picnic, especially now after the scandals. Seminarians are basically put through the equivalent of purgatory in order to assure that they are suitable for the priesthood. Students go through rigorous psychological testing before even being accepted, and continue to meet with spiritual directors for the years they are there.

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point5
Listen Im gonna read the book. I have been recommended it by MANY priests now. Sure there are those that oppose it...but truth is not always what we want to hear...maybe some things in the book are misquoted, but we can agree that this book is based on fact. I have even been recommended this book by a priest I respect who just attended that seminary himself, and he highly recommended it. I think anyone who rejects it based on some heresay is wrong...this excludes poontifex (because his was with a relationship he has with someone talked about in chapter 4). Find the facts out yourself...read the book...it wont hurt you...I shall start tonight.


-pax
Kiel

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Mickey's_Girl
[quote name='Patriarch' date='Jun 8 2004, 08:42 PM'] Anyway, say a prayer for my family, and for vocations, too... [/quote]
Patriarch--

I was very sad to hear about your brother and about the trials your family has faced due to sin and negligence and abuse of power. This was shameful and wrong.

I will be praying for your family. And for vocations, definitely.

MG

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