Lilllabettt Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 I was startled and taken aback that someone would do that much digging into my personal life just to discredit me here you were startled because its a weird and creepy thing to do. Is mental health a prerequisite for being a "true" consecrated virgin I wonder? probably someone who is emotionally immature, lacks boundaries, is unbalanced etc. would find their ability to image Our Lady seriously impaired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrideofChrist Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 you were startled because its a weird and creepy thing to do. Is mental health a prerequisite for being a "true" consecrated virgin I wonder? probably someone who is emotionally immature, lacks boundaries, is unbalanced etc. would find their ability to image Our Lady seriously impaired. This insinuation and improper diagnosis by a non-physician is uncalled for, Lillabettt and yet typical of your modus operandi. The CVs who have looked up Sponsa are well respected academics and professionals and their jobs require emotional stability and balance. Anyone who purports to be an aspiring academic like Sponsa and puts forth her opinions in a public venue and connects her theories with her public persona is apt to be discussed and parsed by academics who have an interest in the field. Basic research is not as creepy and weird as you may want to project unto these people. Your ad hominems don't bother me, but it is evident to me that your interest is emotionally driven and does not appear to have a sound intellectual foundation since you have failed throughout these threads to provide anything but ad hominem attacks. Sponsa is her own woman and she is a student with the potential of tapping into the wisdom of her professors. Why she should be concerned that her opining on these threads and on her website can somehow derail her academic career is unfathomable to me unless she fears that they won't hold up to the scrutiny of said professors who are there to help her. Lillabettt, true academics are not afraid of being critiqued nor are they reluctant to provide solid evidence backing up their positions. Had she bothered to ask her professors about "moral obligations" she could have been corrected easily and swiftly or validated and she could have used the information given to her by these professors in Rome to recant her position or to prove it. It's not helpful for her to choose to only focus on her opinions when there are a lot of things about the vocation which are certainties especially when she says she is trying to teach people about the vocation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilllabettt Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 I have no argument to make. I think people can read what you have written for themselves. Perhaps no one has told you before, but your self-presentation suggests strangeness and social challenge. You do not seem to pick up on ques. You do not seem to be able to "read between the lines." You don't seem to "know" what most people automatically observe as boundaries. If there is not an underlying issue, then perhaps it is simply a lack of human formation. Given the paucity of formal formation available in the CV vocation, one would think that solid, mature human formation would be a prerequisite for consecration. Although to be honest, I know of a few women whose personality problems made it impossible for them to succeed in communal life, who then sought the consecration, and were granted it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 (edited) It amazes me how the fighting and boundaries on consecrated virgin threads always surpass those of modesty ones, and modesty is by far a much more common and relatable issue. I'm not making any judgments on anyone here, but I am making a point I believe is necessary: as consecrated virgins, you are trying to be as much like the Holy Mother as possible, correct? I haven't had the pleasure of meeting her personally, but I don't think Our Mother would be doing and saying the things that have been done and said. If you are a consecrated virgin or are aspiring to be one, it is my advice that you stop and ask yourselves if the Holy Mother would approve of the way you are acting. And I'm not making any judgments on anyone by saying that. It's something I constantly have to remind myself of as well, and I know I often fail that test. Being a consecrated virgin or the topic of consecrated virgins itself is not worth starting World War III over. At some point, does proving yourself right on the internet really matter in the grand scheme of things? You could be learning about the faith, teaching the faith, feeding the poor, praying and working towards world peace, doing productive things. Stop wasting your time arguing over something stupid on the internet, because at some point, this isn't your time, it's God's time that he has granted you to do something great and glorious with. Stop wasting it. Edited February 26, 2014 by FuturePriest387 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrideofChrist Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Lillabettt, you have confessed to stalking me on another thread here on Phatmass and you continue to spout forth ad hominem attacks. You don't know me in real life and you are trying to discredit what I have to say based on your emotional response to my words regardless of whether they are truly indicative of who I really am. I am not basing this on my emotions but on your declaration that you would follow me everywhere. Are you concerned about the truth of the topics under debate or are you more interested in smearing my name with insinuations whenever you can? Does it make you look good to always be hounding me over my supposed social inabilities? Is there any Catholic justification for your continuous ad hominems? Is there any intellectual basis for your disagreements with my positions or do you simply dislike me and my style? I am flattered that your only issue appears to be my tone and it saddens me that you seem to be incapable of reading me in a charitable light. I know you may mean well, but this quack diagnosis is unhelpful. Why don't you consult with your pastor (or spiritual director if you are fortunate enough to have one) and ask if it is okay to stalk someone online and repeatedly try to smear their reputation by uncharitable judgements about their characters based on nothing but your biased emotional responses to my words? Based on your other posts about your personal life, is it possible that you are projecting your personal struggles onto me? I am not an expert in pyschology but it occurred to me that this may be something to look into. Future Priest, instructing the ignorant is part of our vocation. Our Lady did it, and hopefully we will follow her example. Do you think that Our Lady would shy from the truth just because it is unpopular with some of the Phamass crew? When people disagree about marriage do we abolish marriage because some people think it is too much to understand the vocation? What in your mind consists of instructing the ignorant? Are you here to obtain more information or are you here to critique but not give any useful insights into the vocation of consecrated virginity? If you pursue the vocation of the priesthood, will you shut up about your vocation because somebody thinks that you should defend women priests or keep out of the conversation because priests need to be meek and humble like Christ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilllabettt Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 I think people can see for themselves, abc. no argument from me is necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Lillabettt, you have confessed to stalking me on another thread here on Phatmass and you continue to spout forth ad hominem attacks. You don't know me in real life and you are trying to discredit what I have to say based on your emotional response to my words regardless of whether they are truly indicative of who I really am. I am not basing this on my emotions but on your declaration that you would follow me everywhere. Are you concerned about the truth of the topics under debate or are you more interested in smearing my name with insinuations whenever you can? Does it make you look good to always be hounding me over my supposed social inabilities? Is there any Catholic justification for your continuous ad hominems? Is there any intellectual basis for your disagreements with my positions or do you simply dislike me and my style? I am flattered that your only issue appears to be my tone and it saddens me that you seem to be incapable of reading me in a charitable light. I know you may mean well, but this quack diagnosis is unhelpful. Why don't you consult with your pastor (or spiritual director if you are fortunate enough to have one) and ask if it is okay to stalk someone online and repeatedly try to smear their reputation by uncharitable judgements about their characters based on nothing but your biased emotional responses to my words? Based on your other posts about your personal life, is it possible that you are projecting your personal struggles onto me? I am not an expert in pyschology but it occurred to me that this may be something to look into. Future Priest, instructing the ignorant is part of our vocation. Our Lady did it, and hopefully we will follow her example. Do you think that Our Lady would shy from the truth just because it is unpopular with some of the Phamass crew? When people disagree about marriage do we abolish marriage because some people think it is too much to understand the vocation? What in your mind consists of instructing the ignorant? Are you here to obtain more information or are you here to critique but not give any useful insights into the vocation of consecrated virginity? If you pursue the vocation of the priesthood, will you shut up about your vocation because somebody thinks that you should defend women priests or keep out of the conversation because priests need to be meek and humble like Christ? I don't honestly know a whole lot about consecrated virginity. Seeing as how I am male, I never thought of it as something that I really needed to learn about for the time being. There is a difference, however, between instructing the ignorant with kindness and charity, and hounding them down because you need to reaffirm to yourself and everyone else that you are right. Regardless if that is your intention, that is how you come across. I would know what it looks like because I constantly struggle with it myself. I love winning. I love being right and having everyone else realize how right I am. But if you walk into a theological conversation with the mindset of "I'm going to win", you've already lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrideofChrist Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 (edited) I don't honestly know a whole lot about consecrated virginity. Seeing as how I am male, I never thought of it as something that I really needed to learn about for the time being. There is a difference, however, between instructing the ignorant with kindness and charity, and hounding them down because you need to reaffirm to yourself and everyone else that you are right. Regardless if that is your intention, that is how you come across. I would know what it looks like because I constantly struggle with it myself. I love winning. I love being right and having everyone else realize how right I am. But if you walk into a theological conversation with the mindset of "I'm going to win", you've already lost. Do you know the definition of rash judgement? How dare you say that I need to reaffirm to myself anything when nobody has thus far given a solid and compelling argument against my positions? I am not saying that you rashly judged me, but you are coming very close to it. I don't care if the whole world thought that my intentioni is to prove myself right because only God's opinion on this matters. Is it possible that I misjudged Phatmass because I thought you cared about the truth in a spirited debate but instead I am presented with whining complaints about my tone? I do think that it is more productive for people engaging in debate to refrain from ad hominems and to actually tackle substantive issues. Why is it that you, Lillabettt, and others are so concerned about tone and other judgements but you cannot for the life of you seem to be able to pull off an elementary intellectual argument on the vocation of consecrated virginity with any weight and you dare think that this vocation started by the Holy Spirit and Our Lady should be discarded because of your opinion on one CV? And what about all the wicked priests? Is the priesthood and any priest who drops in and who rubs you the wrong way to be attacked and stalked also even if nothing he says is theologically off? This is the debate table not the emotional I'm happy if you agree with me and accuse you of being uncharitable or pyschologically impaired individual if you rub against my emotions the wrong way. Do you believe that if academics argue that they are automatically uncharitable? Is this just a clique where everyone has to pat each other's backs with an emotional bond that ties you even if they're wrong and an emotional feel good free for all, or is real conversation forbidden? Are we back into schoolyard bullying? (I don't like what you have to say so I'm going to attack your character.) Edited February 26, 2014 by abrideofChrist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Do you know the definition of rash judgement? How dare you say that I need to reaffirm to myself anything when nobody has thus far given a solid and compelling argument against my positions? I am not saying that you rashly judged me, but you are coming very close to it. I don't care if the whole world thought that my intentioni is to prove myself right because only God's opinion on this matters. Is it possible that I misjudged Phatmass because I thought you cared about the truth in a spirited debate but instead I am presented with whining complaints about my tone? I do think that it is more productive for people engaging in debate to refrain from ad hominems and to actually tackle substantive issues. Why is it that you, Lillabettt, and others are so concerned about tone and other judgements but you cannot for the life of you seem to be able to pull off an elementary intellectual argument on the vocation of consecrated virginity with any weight and you dare think that this vocation started by the Holy Spirit and Our Lady should be discarded because of your opinion on one CV? And what about all the wicked priests? Is the priesthood and any priest who drops in and who rubs you the wrong way to be attacked and stalked also even if nothing he says is theologically off? This is the debate table not the emotional I'm happy if you agree with me and accuse you of being uncharitable or pyschologically impaired individual if you rub against my emotions the wrong way. Do you believe that if academics argue that they are automatically uncharitable? Is this just a clique where everyone has to pat each other's backs with an emotional bond that ties you even if they're wrong and an emotional feel good free for all, or is real conversation forbidden? Are we back into schoolyard bullying? (I don't like what you have to say so I'm going to attack your character.) Now who is making the rash judgements? I just came in here. I have said nothing about consecrated virginity. I have no opinions on it other than consecrated virginity is great and undervalued. I would be more than happy to debate you on anything we happen to disagree upon. Unless, however, you speak to me with disrespect, as you are doing now. That is why people are speaking about your tone and methods rather than the actual argument. You don't show respect to others who disagree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandelynmarie Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 No one will ever come close to the purity of our Blessed Mother (Full of Grace!)...but Confession will help us to imitate her...it is the cure, for all our sins & it heals us...reconciles our relationship with God (but no, it cannot "fix" physical virginity that has been lost intentionally)...& I am inclined to believe with others that the CV vocation needs to be deeply discerned on an individual basis ....especially with the help of those in ecclesial (sp?) authority... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freudianslippers Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Huh. If I were to make a judgment based on charity, I'd have to atheist at this point. You guys are whacked. Personally, the consecrated virgin angle is kind of creepy to me. Not to be rude but in our society today, how does one stay out of trouble, exactly? ABrideofChrist, do you watch tv at all? I think you must live in a tower.... But I think it's funny. I'm eating popcorn watching the ping pong ball (metaphorical) go back and forth. Is ABC wrong because of her tone? I've seen many ruder people here who are loved and embraced for being acerbic. She amuses me in her constant attempts here. You think because she's a consecrated virgin she needs to shut up and just take her lessons from you and this is humility; and her resistance to phatmassers who try to silence her because they're not comfortable with her beliefs is an indication that she is therefore wrong? I think she's wrong because virginity has got to be darn near impossible in our sex saturated society. And I think you guys are proof of it. ABrideofChrist gives an opinion and is promptly accused of being unbalanced? That's kind of messed up, guys. This is my problem here. You guys can't agree on anything unless it's proposed by one of your popular members. So future priest, is this the new religion? Has the Catholic Church changed so much since I walked away? So your good opinion is necessary if you're to debate on this site? And you count that as a challenge worth pursuing? Gotta say, I'm disappointed. I thought you'd have changed by now. Still just siding with popular opinion which is funny to me because Christ almost never was on the side of popular opinion and yet you profess to be his future disciple. I think Phatmass is all about pandering to each other and avoiding any real meaningful conversation though I have a friend who disagrees. And when you do come up, we spiritedly debate it. But hey, no one is perfect, right? And this is why I stopped believing in God. When you want to make a good impression, you send your best emissary. If smug Catholics like you are his best, then I'm going to politely bow out. And if my friend is smart, he'll do the same. :) Love, Freudian's slippers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandelynmarie Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 I recall Gandhi supposedly made a similar obervation....If you look solely to humans to perfectly represent God & God's love, you will continue to be sorely disappointed. Look to Jesus & His teachings...especially in the Church. We are all in need of continual forgiveness & mercy & we follow Him Who is the Divine Physician... You can always start another thread in the Debate Table ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freudianslippers Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 You are kind. Would to God more Christians were like you. I haven't read anything of Ghandi. Religion has become kind of off putting for me... :D What debate would I start, exactly? I recall Gandhi supposedly made a similar obervation....If you look solely to humans to perfectly represent God & God's love, you will continue to be sorely disappointed. Look to Jesus & His teachings...especially in the Church. We are all in need of continual forgiveness & mercy & we follow Him Who is the Divine Physician... You can always start another thread in the Debate Table ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandelynmarie Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 (edited) :) oh goodness, only if you wanted to! You could possibly start one based on your observations that you made above...Of course, no promises or guarantees of what will happen! Oh, & I believe Jesus was God's best emissary... Edited February 26, 2014 by brandelynmarie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarbTherese Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 :popcorn2: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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