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Why Is It So Difficult To Find A Nice Chotki?


Oremus Pro Invicem

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Well yes, it is small-t traditional to make them out of wool. But there are also a lot of wooden ones, and even differently shaped ones (for example, ones that look more like wee ladders)... the point being that it's not a 'Religious Thing' but a tool. I would even say just a tool. That's how I was thinking when I suggested a rosary. I didn't realise that you guys would think that rosary beads are ONLY for praying the Hail Marys etc. And I'm a bit prickly towards the tendency of Christians outside the Orthodox Church to fetishise anything eastern and mystical-looking.


Oh no, I use my rosary for plenty of things, not just saying the rosary. Chaplet of divine mercy, I've used it before as an aid when I just wanted to say little prayers of thanks.

Also, FP, I said it was Eastern, as opposed to Western. Yeah, the whole breathe with both lungs thing, but I'm personally uncomfortable with the fact that it often takes the form of faddish whims (not accusing you, or anyone here, of this) rather than actual devotion.
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PhuturePriest

Oh no, I use my rosary for plenty of things, not just saying the rosary. Chaplet of divine mercy, I've used it before as an aid when I just wanted to say little prayers of thanks.

Also, FP, I said it was Eastern, as opposed to Western. Yeah, the whole breathe with both lungs thing, but I'm personally uncomfortable with the fact that it often takes the form of faddish whims (not accusing you, or anyone here, of this) rather than actual devotion.

 

The Rosary itself is a faddish whim. Every baptized Catholic and his grandmother have rosaries hanging on the rear-view mirrors of their car, but 95% of those people don't use them, and most of them aren't even devout or even attend Mass. Gangs use the rosary as gang signs because it's part of their culture, not because it actually means something to them. It's no different than a traddie buying a chotki just because he thinks it looks cool.

 

That being said, I am buying a chotki, and it's because I fully intend to have it in my pocket and use it constantly, not because I think it will make for a nice ornament. It's a nice devotion, and there's nothing wrong with westerners picking up eastern devotions.

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PhuturePriest

Well yes, it is small-t traditional to make them out of wool. But there are also a lot of wooden ones, and even differently shaped ones (for example, ones that look more like wee ladders)... the point being that it's not a 'Religious Thing' but a tool. I would even say just a tool. That's how I was thinking when I suggested a rosary. I didn't realise that you guys would think that rosary beads are ONLY for praying the Hail Marys etc. And I'm a bit prickly towards the tendency of Christians outside the Orthodox Church to fetishise anything eastern and mystical-looking.

 

Rosaries are deemed in much higher regard than Orthodox view chotkis, I guess. We don't view them as mere tools, but sacred items that aid us in a sacred devotion. I won't even pray the Rosary if I don't have a rosary with me (Which is quite rare, as I always have one on me).

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Oremus Pro Invicem

Alright peeps. I didn't intend for this to be a rosary vs. chotki thread.

As far as I'm concerned I found what I was looking for. The thread can be closed now.

God bless.

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The Rosary itself is a faddish whim.

 

This statement is preposterous. Is it faddish in popular culture? Sure. However, a fad in Catholic culture? Hardly. 

 

 

Every baptized Catholic and his grandmother have rosaries hanging on the rear-view mirrors of their car, but 95% of those people don't use them, and most of them aren't even devout or even attend Mass. Gangs use the rosary as gang signs because it's part of their culture, not because it actually means something to them. It's no different than a traddie buying a chotki just because he thinks it looks cool.

 

Apples and oranges. I'm speaking about people who actually view and use the item for its religious purpose. 

 

 

That being said, I am buying a chotki, and it's because I fully intend to have it in my pocket and use it constantly, not because I think it will make for a nice ornament. It's a nice devotion, and there's nothing wrong with westerners picking up eastern devotions. 

 

Good for you, I specifically said I wasn't accusing anyone here of it. It's something I see in my neck of the woods. 

 

I suppose I wasn't clear in what my issue is. Sure, westerners picking up eastern devotions isn't necessarily a problem, but IMO, you should breathe with your own lung before switching to the other. Or something, I'm butchering the metaphor at this point. My point is that we should look first to the devotional/spiritual heritage of our own tradition, and not adopt something which has a much broader meaning that we, as outsiders, don't get. Maybe I'm overreacting (probably am) but that's just my .02 cents. 

 

Argh, I should clarify more. My own .02 is that there is an incredible spiritual depth in our own tradition, which I have seen people neglect out of a desire to "explore the East." I think that's a mistake. That's all. 

 

Sorry OPI, totally derailed your thread to get on a soapbox. Mea Culpa. Like I said before, I don't think any of y'all are doing this. 

 

Okay, I'm going to shut up now. 

Edited by Amppax
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PhuturePriest

This statement is preposterous. Is it faddish in popular culture? Sure. However, a fad in Catholic culture? Hardly. 

 

 

Apples and oranges. I'm speaking about people who actually view and use the item for its religious purpose. 

 

 

Good for you, I specifically said I wasn't accusing anyone here of it. It's something I see in my neck of the woods. 

 

I suppose I wasn't clear in what my issue is. Sure, westerners picking up eastern devotions isn't necessarily a problem, but IMO, you should breathe with your own lung before switching to the other. Or something, I'm butchering the metaphor at this point. My point is that we should look first to the devotional/spiritual heritage of our own tradition, and not adopt something which has a much broader meaning that we, as outsiders, don't get. Maybe I'm overreacting (probably am) but that's just my .02 cents. 

 

Argh, I should clarify more. My own .02 is that there is an incredible spiritual depth in our own tradition, which I have seen people neglect out of a desire to "explore the East." I think that's a mistake. That's all. 

 

Sorry OPI, totally derailed your thread to get on a soapbox. Mea Culpa. Like I said before, I don't think any of y'all are doing this. 

 

Okay, I'm going to shut up now. 

 

I definitely agree. We should learn our own traditions and spirituality before looking elsewhere. But I'm not exactly the run-of-the-mill Catholic who can't name the four Gospels to save his life, and I know more of our spiritual heritage than many. I don't think it's an issue to pick up things like the chotki if you have already explored a lot of your own heritage, especially if something like the chotki enhances your spiritual life.

 

I would warn, however, against thinking Eastern Christianity and Eastern devotions are "more spiritual" than Western spirituality. Are Eastern Christians more devout? Possibly. I'm not exactly qualified to declare one way or the other. But we have a very rich heritage and spirituality of our own, and we shouldn't neglect it or think it's inferior.

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Amazon.com. Seriously I found wooden ones, wool ones, and ones that look more like Rosaries or 33 knot bracelets. All kinds of things there.

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  • 5 months later...
  • 3 years later...

My husband and I handmake Chotki style prayer bead necklaces, Rosaries both Catholic and Anglican. We have a facebook page at sacred intention rosaries 

Edited by AmberMc
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  • 1 year later...
Garrett413k
On 2/11/2015 at 3:37 PM, PhuturePriest said:

Correct!

 

I'm looking for somthing like this:

 

E6_B2_D4_C4_972_A_4892_A827_1207_C177_FC

 

I share in your struggle. Most chotkis have very indistinguishable knots, which is a major issue for me. It's very important that the knots/beads are distinguishable, or you'll lose where you are, plus they look nicer. I much prefer chotkis like the one you display, and ones like this:

chotki2.jpg

If the knots on your prayer rope are very close together and hard to feel the difference between them, try pulling on the rope in both directions at the same time. Mine is wool and I was able to stretch it out a bit to make the knots much more distinguishable. Don't pull too hard, but like if you're trying to tighten a self made cord Rosary.

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Garrett413k
On 2/11/2015 at 3:37 PM, PhuturePriest said:

Correct!

 

I'm looking for somthing like this:

 

E6_B2_D4_C4_972_A_4892_A827_1207_C177_FC

 

I share in your struggle. Most chotkis have very indistinguishable knots, which is a major issue for me. It's very important that the knots/beads are distinguishable, or you'll lose where you are, plus they look nicer. I much prefer chotkis like the one you display, and ones like this:

chotki2.jpg

 

Edited by Garrett413k
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