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Why No Hip Hop?


cathedral monk

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cathedral monk

While scratching through the site clicked on "about us" read and read and then read a side box that said phatmass is against any phorm of hip hop used in the liturgy. I want to know why? What's wrong with turn tables accompanying the organ? What's wrong with some popping and locking in the liturgical dancing? And why can't the psalms be recited street poet style?

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Basilisa Marie

While scratching through the site clicked on "about us" read and read and then read a side box that said phatmass is against any phorm of hip hop used in the liturgy. I want to know why? What's wrong with turn tables accompanying the organ? What's wrong with some popping and locking in the liturgical dancing? And why can't the psalms be recited street poet style?

 

Because hip hop isn't a kind of music that is associated with worship in our culture. Neither is liturgical dancing for Americans. Historically you can find all kinds of documents from popes and bishops talking about what kind of music is and isn't appropriate for worship, and the threads that tie them all together are 

  • they should give pride of place to human voices through chant
  • the organ is a great instrument after the human voice
  • music should focus on the worship of god and not the skill or talent of the musician, it should clearly not be a performance.
  • incorporating elements of the local culture is okay, if it's done right. 

There was a time when the piano was considered an unworthy instrument, but now you'll find one in lots of churches. Opera was condemned as a liturgical musical style. You'll still get people who want to argue back and forth about the merits of guitars, drums, etc. 

 

A good, legitimate example of incorporating culture is the Zaire Use, or Roman Missal for Dioceses in Zaire. It's a perfectly valid and licit adaptation of the Roman Rite for exclusive use in Zaire. The differences reflect that it's African culture, not European or Western culture. 

 

 

The Roman Missal for the Dioceses of Zaire goes about its attempts to inculturate by allowing certain unique adaptations. They include the following changes:[2]

  • The Priest is dressed in the robes that would be used by a tribal priest
  • The servers (all male) carry spears
  • There is a new role introduced, that of the announcer (as one finds in African public functions)
  • The celebrants and servers dance around the altar as a means of veneration
  • There is an included invocation of the saints and ancestors
  • The penitential rite is moved to after the Creed
  • There is a sprinkling of Holy Water after the kiss of peace
  • Pots of incense are used, and left burning during the general intercessions
  • There is a dance accompanying a bringing of gifts for those in need
  • There are some new prayers added that highlight key elements of the African cultural worldview (communal, non-dualistic, solidarity oriented)
  • The lifting of hands accompanies prayers and responses to prayers
  • People sit at the reading of the Gospel
  • Places for the people to respond in the Eucharistic prayer have been added

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaire_Use

It's not universally used in Congo, but you can still find it in the Congo. 

 

This part of the video shows the presentation of the gifts: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxxTG9Wo2-Y#t=269

 

Hip hop and liturgical dance just aren't part of worship in American and Western culture. It doesn't make sense to use them in our liturgy, because they're too closely associated with secular culture. 

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There was a time when the piano was considered an unworthy instrument, but now you'll find one in lots of churches. 

Personally, I would argue that the piano remains unsuitable for the Mass even today.

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PhuturePriest

No music at all, like they do it in the Orthodox Church, would be amesome. The human voice is an instrument all its own.

 

I would choose a parish that sings this music than a parish with an awesome organist and cantor any day.

 

The popular phrase, I'm afraid, is wrong: Beauty is NOT in the eye of the beholder. There is such a thing as objective beauty. If a person thinks Gregorian chant isn't more beautiful than Gather Us In and songs of that particular brand of garbage, that person is wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LM2il0ADO50

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cathedral monk

Basilisa Marie thanx for that that's the type of answer I was looking for. With regards to African culture, I am familiar with all of those points except alter servers carrying spears and being all male. Here in South Africa we allow young girls to serve and we carry candles. We do liturgical dance instead of dancing around the alter. Please don't get me wrong I would never dream of cutting a windmill across the sanctuary or have MC's rip rhymes from the pulpit. But is there no way to lace or sprinkle a bit of hip hop into the liturgy, for the sake of the youth. Our churches are becoming empty....youth empty. some parishes in South Africa are allowing hillsong to be played, as a means to keep youth interested. Other parishes have bands so that kids who play instruments can feel part of the liturgy. So what about the BBoy why can't he express his love for the liturgy popping and locking during liturgical dance. Why can't the rapper resite the psalms in a "cool" manner. It's their talent and that's a way of giving that's to God for a talent. Quote "incorporating elements of the local culture is okay, if it's done right." 

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Basilisa Marie thanx for that that's the type of answer I was looking for. With regards to African culture, I am familiar with all of those points except alter servers carrying spears and being all male. Here in South Africa we allow young girls to serve and we carry candles. We do liturgical dance instead of dancing around the alter. Please don't get me wrong I would never dream of cutting a windmill across the sanctuary or have MC's rip rhymes from the pulpit. But is there no way to lace or sprinkle a bit of hip hop into the liturgy, for the sake of the youth. Our churches are becoming empty....youth empty. some parishes in South Africa are allowing hillsong to be played, as a means to keep youth interested. Other parishes have bands so that kids who play instruments can feel part of the liturgy. So what about the BBoy why can't he express his love for the liturgy popping and locking during liturgical dance. Why can't the rapper resite the psalms in a "cool" manner. It's their talent and that's a way of giving that's to God for a talent. Quote "incorporating elements of the local culture is okay, if it's done right." 

The thing is is that it is the liturgy, the worship of God. Hip hop is a secular, and in the absolute sense of the word, profane.  Further, this sort of bringing the youth culture into the church has been going on since at least the Sixties in America and Europe, and it has proven that it just doesn't work.  It may retain the youth for a couple years, but when they out grow what's 'hip' or what's 'hip' changes, they end up leaving the church.  

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