Ice_nine Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 so here's the deal I have a friend who is a former Catholic. Now she's like one of those real jump-for-jesus types, some protestant/evangelical or other. We're fairly close but not best friends. I wasn't sure I'd get an invite because we live far apart and she's spending mad $$$$ so I didn't know if I'd make the cut (which I was kind of relieved because I'm a coward and that way I wouldn't need to explain any objections, which is great for me since I'm a coward. Anyhow she asked me and I said yeah I would go and then I started making plans to split a hotel with another mutual friend. So I'd feel like a real flake for backing out now. It happened kind of quickly and I probably didn't answer before really thinking it through. I know what the catechism says about scandal and stuff but I Really don't think that my presence or absence would make much of a statement either way, other than maybe I'm a flake for not going after I said I would. In any case I assumed that since this person has more or less renounced the Catholic faith that the marriage would be at least valid, if illicit, but apparently unless you formally separate yourself from the church in writing you are stil bound to canon law (which seems kind of silly to me because why would someone who has renounced the faith care about what canon law says?) but anyway . . . I'm not sure what to do. I considered maybe writing her and maybe saying "hey here's what I think you should do, just writing this out of concern etc." that way she'd know I don't "approve" but I could still go to avoid straining the relationship. she might respect that, or maybe not who knows. The couple in question have not cohabitated and they've "waited" for marriage which is an idea I can get behind. In any case just need some advice from my friendly neighborhood phatmassers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggyie Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 You could attend the reception and not the ceremony. The reception is just for wishing the couple well which of course you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 (edited) Write the letter and attend the reception. But whether you go or not, you are more or less obligated as a Catholic to instruct the ignorant, and in this case that means explaining that you think this is wrong and why. If you don't like formal conflict, writing a letter seems to be the perfect way to accomplish this. Edited April 22, 2015 by PhuturePriest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luigi Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Personally, I don't think she'll appreciate the letter, or act on whatever advice you might give. Skip the wedding, go to the reception, and give them a rosary as a wedding present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice_nine Posted April 22, 2015 Author Share Posted April 22, 2015 (edited) so like, do I have to explain why I'm not going to the wedding, but I can go to the reception? That seems almost ruder. I'm not sure she'd change her plans from a letter (not really a letter more like a longer than usual facebook message) but idk at least she'd know where I stand. Gar why do I smell of elderberries so bad at life?! I was great at the board game. Edited April 22, 2015 by Ice_nine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 (edited) Personally, I don't think she'll appreciate the letter, or act on whatever advice you might give. Skip the wedding, go to the reception, and give them a rosary as a wedding present. People often do not appreciate the truth. The pharisees certainly did not appreciate it when Jesus told them they were sons of Satan. Nevertheless, it is still our duty to tell people the truth. Our duty is not to convert everyone, but to try to, and we are duty-bound to tell the truth in doing so. Jesus was unable to convert most people, and this is because he told the truth, and we shouldn't preach to people and not tell them the truth. so like, do I have to explain why I'm not going to the wedding, but I can go to the reception? That seems almost ruder. I'm not sure she'd change her plans from a letter (not really a letter more like a longer than usual facebook message) but idk at least she'd know where I stand. Gar why do I smell of elderberries so bad at life?! I was great at the board game. The thing is, the likelihood of you telling her and her changing everything is very low. But as I said above, our duty is not to convert people, but to try to. Most people resist the Faith, and there is nothing we can do about that. All we are required to do is to tell the truth in the most effective way possible, pray for conversions, and hope for the best. Most people will not listen, but some will, and as we do not know who those some will be, it is our duty to tell everyone without discrimination in the most loving way possible. Edited April 22, 2015 by PhuturePriest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarysLittleFlower Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 so here's the deal I have a friend who is a former Catholic. Now she's like one of those real jump-for-jesus types, some protestant/evangelical or other. We're fairly close but not best friends. I wasn't sure I'd get an invite because we live far apart and she's spending mad $$$$ so I didn't know if I'd make the cut (which I was kind of relieved because I'm a coward and that way I wouldn't need to explain any objections, which is great for me since I'm a coward. Anyhow she asked me and I said yeah I would go and then I started making plans to split a hotel with another mutual friend. So I'd feel like a real flake for backing out now. It happened kind of quickly and I probably didn't answer before really thinking it through. I know what the catechism says about scandal and stuff but I Really don't think that my presence or absence would make much of a statement either way, other than maybe I'm a flake for not going after I said I would. In any case I assumed that since this person has more or less renounced the Catholic faith that the marriage would be at least valid, if illicit, but apparently unless you formally separate yourself from the church in writing you are stil bound to canon law (which seems kind of silly to me because why would someone who has renounced the faith care about what canon law says?) but anyway . . . I'm not sure what to do. I considered maybe writing her and maybe saying "hey here's what I think you should do, just writing this out of concern etc." that way she'd know I don't "approve" but I could still go to avoid straining the relationship. she might respect that, or maybe not who knows. The couple in question have not cohabitated and they've "waited" for marriage which is an idea I can get behind. In any case just need some advice from my friendly neighborhood phatmassers. I think the idea is that once you're Catholic you're always Catholic after that and if someone became Protestant they're kind of like a Catholic in heretical organization... Not commenting on her culpability here. Catholics are supposed to be married in the Church... Personally I wouldn't go to the wedding. I would try to explain it gently - not yet sure how .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarysLittleFlower Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 A priest counselled me not to attend any Protestant services to not have common worship.. If I was invited to a Protestant wedding I'd have that explanation too - that I believe worship is a sign we believe the same thing. It might not be very honest though to use that explanation when there's this issue too? If you explain it to her I'd keep more to the fact that you're Catholic and don't feel comfortable with ... Rather than talking about her status cause she might not be open. Kind of like "I would love to be there on a special occasion for you like your wedding but I can't in good conscience..." - the next part needs to be really thought out though. And worded gently I think. (To be a good example of a Catholic in this). I'd pray a lot to the Holy Spirit for wisdom and fortitude .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisa Marie Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 You can't back out unless you plan on still paying for your half of the hotel bill. Honestly the time to inform her of her canonical duty would have been during the marriage prep, and you don't know if they looked into it and got a couple of dispensations. Who knows, they could get it healed with a radical sanation later on if the Catholic has a change of heart regarding the Church. That's when the Church recognises the original exchange of consent as being valid for good reasons, usually if the Catholic didn't originally follow canonical form. But that's neither here nor there. The whole point of Catholics not attending invalid marriages is to not give scandal, and scandal would be giving people the impression that the Church approves. If you were her family member or a close friend you'd be in a position to actually talk with her about her canonical duty and make an impression. You'd also be more obligated to not go to the wedding. So how close are you? Standing on a street corner shouting that Jesus is Lord and the Catholic Church is true doesn't really count as instructing the ignorant. Would she even notice if you weren't at the wedding but at the reception? Would your conscience be more at peace if you didn't attend the wedding but did attend the reception? if so, do that. Or are you just looking for a convenient way out of making the trip? I've been there before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Ice, my recommendation is to talk to a priest about it. There's a lot involved, but not everything is easily addresses on web. Don't make a decision based an PM gadflies' comments. You don't need to be a jerk to her, so honesty does not need to be brutal. There is a lot to be said about her still wanting God in her marriage and life. No need to reinforce her decision to not be Catholic with rude behavior. The Church is more willing and happy to take anyone back than shut the door in their face. Talk to a priest and have a bit of confidence in your decision. They've all been asked this before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 I have been given differing instructions from different priests, so I do think some difference of opinion is inevitable. One priest told me if would be acceptable to attend the entire event as long as my position was clear to the parties involved, and as long as I did not take an active part in the 'wedding' itself. Another priest has told me (via a homily, but covering the same situation) that the better option is not to attend, but in all charity to tell the other party why I must decline. I am afraid I cannot be of any more help than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 I am afraid I cannot be of any more help than that. You were helpful by illustrating the difference between an answer derived from a conversation and a generic general recommendation uttered in a homily. There is a difference between ideal vs real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 You were helpful by illustrating the difference between an answer derived from a conversation and a generic general recommendation uttered in a homily. There is a difference between ideal vs real. You say that as if you know the circumstances in which I dealt with the question originally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 You say that as if you know the circumstances in which I dealt with the question originally. Weves. I say that in context of your specific post, but it's your panties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatitude Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 If you were her family member or a close friend you'd be in a position to actually talk with her about her canonical duty and make an impression. You'd also be more obligated to not go to the wedding. So how close are you? Standing on a street corner shouting that Jesus is Lord and the Catholic Church is true doesn't really count as instructing the ignorant. Would she even notice if you weren't at the wedding but at the reception? Would your conscience be more at peace if you didn't attend the wedding but did attend the reception? if so, do that. Or are you just looking for a convenient way out of making the trip? I've been there before. That is true. Several times I have been in situations where I knew something was wrong, but knew I probably wasn't the right person to say anything about it. People tend to listen to those they are closest to and they respect. Recently I made a mistake in challenging an acquaintance over an unethical course of action, she got huffy ("I don't remember asking for your opinion on how I live my life"), and became even more entrenched in her choice, whereas if someone closer to her with more knowledge of her temperament (and consequently more right to speak) had given her the same advice, she might well have taken it. Instructing the ignorant does require prudence and discernment, and knowing when is the right place and time to say something. From what you describe of the situation you are not the right person. However, a gentle hint (a gift of a nice wedding rosary, for example) might actually help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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