The Church needs to change - but not in the way they all say

[MarysLittleFlower]

I think I said it unclearly. I am not saying in any case that the ordinary Magisterium is infallible all the time - rather just when the Bishops teach the same thing as the Pope over time together, which is referred to as universal ordinary Magisterium. In itself it's not infallible rather its acts can share in infallibility of the Pope when Bishops teach together with the Pope. There are three ways the Church is infallible: in ex cathedra Papal statements, in pronouncements of Ecumenical Councils and in acts of universal ordinary Magisterium. Do you accept that? As for the ordinaryMagisterium i'm actually unsure and I'm trying to clear up that topic. Im trying to check in this thread if im using terms correctly. Can we move the discussion to this new thread so we don't keep derailing this one? http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/138266-infallibility/

 

"Perhaps in general but still the magesterium is not infallible. Don't say it is, follow the guidance of the church with a living faith( open eyes) not a blind hysteria." I apologize if I misunderstood but here its really sounding like you said that you believe the Magisterium is not infallible and that its blind hysteria to think so. Since the infallibility of the Magisterium is a dogma, I referred to dogma and said following dogma is not blind hysteria. If you accept the Church dogmas then you need to accept infallibility of the Magisterium. As for what Magisterium we mean, I'm confused on that and may have gotten some things wrong about the ordinary Magisterium so let's move the discussion to the new thread I posted? :) however I know I'm not wrong about the Sacred Magisterium itself. 

And i am truly open still and always will be that i could be wrong, upon anything i say or think, so please don't think that i am demanding that i am correct and that all should believe what i say. I am not infallible.

ok let's just continue the topic on the infallibility thread and figure out in which ways the Magisterium is infallible because I know its infallible but I got confused on the ordinary Magisterium during this discussion and may have said that wrong. So others can clarify on that thread who are more knowledgeable however what I quoted from V1 is obviously correct and the Magisterium is infallible we just need to determine how  

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

and again here in a document that isn't church official that you posted must either be heretical or you are all free masons teaching error delibrately or sorely misled, "Infallibility just means that certain teachings of the Catholic Church are guaranteed to be without error. That's not to say that they are the full and final word on the topic: later teachings may deepen and further clarify aspects of the original teaching."

Here we see the words used are certain teachings and not all teachings.

I think I said it unclearly. I am not saying in any case that the ordinary Magisterium is infallible all the time - rather just when the Bishops teach the same thing as the Pope over time together, which is referred to as universal ordinary Magisterium. In itself it's not infallible rather its acts can share in infallibility of the Pope when Bishops teach together with the Pope. There are three ways the Church is infallible: in ex cathedra Papal statements, in pronouncements of Ecumenical Councils and in acts of universal ordinary Magisterium. Do you accept that? As for the ordinaryMagisterium i'm actually unsure and I'm trying to clear up that topic. Im trying to check in this thread if im using terms correctly. Can we move the discussion to this new thread so we don't keep derailing this one? http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/138266-infallibility/

 

"Perhaps in general but still the magesterium is not infallible. Don't say it is, follow the guidance of the church with a living faith( open eyes) not a blind hysteria." I apologize if I misunderstood but here its really sounding like you said that you believe the Magisterium is not infallible and that its blind hysteria to think so. Since the infallibility of the Magisterium is a dogma, I referred to dogma and said following dogma is not blind hysteria. If you accept the Church dogmas then you need to accept infallibility of the Magisterium. As for what Magisterium we mean, I'm confused on that and may have gotten some things wrong about the ordinary Magisterium so let's move the discussion to the new thread I posted? :) however I know I'm not wrong about the Sacred Magisterium itself. 

ok let's just continue the topic on the infallibility thread and figure out in which ways the Magisterium is infallible because I know its infallible but I got confused on the ordinary Magisterium during this discussion and may have said that wrong. So others can clarify on that thread who are more knowledgeable however what I quoted from V1 is obviously correct and the Magisterium is infallible we just need to determine how  

I agree totaly, accept that it is not the universal ordinary magesterium, the ordinary and universal magesterium are different bodies as far as i'm aware, and yes lets go to a new thread.  

[MarysLittleFlower]

I'm not saying everything said in the Church is infallible. No one is saying that. We are saying the Church is infallible on pronouncements in faith and morals from the Pope, Ecumenical Councils, or Bishops collectively teaching with the Pope in whatever way that means. I think we are all kind of talking past each other. But saying "the Magisterium is not infallible" is incorrect cause we can see it does make infallible teachings.. 

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

I'm not saying everything said in the Church is infallible. No one is saying that. We are saying the Church is infallible on pronouncements in faith and morals from the Pope, Ecumenical Councils, or Bishops collectively teaching with the Pope in whatever way that means. I think we are all kind of talking past each other. But saying "the Magisterium is not infallible" is incorrect cause we can see it does make infallible teachings.. 

The enterity of the magesterium is not infallible, and i have always said it can and does teach infallibly. Unsure why your all saying i'm wrong, all these documents proove i am correct and in the fullness of truth and all teachings of the magesterium and laymen thus presented so far.

I have to go to bed anyway pupils(peoples), may the Lord of all that is good grant you peace and good will. God bless.

Edited July 30, 2015 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye

[MarysLittleFlower]

I don't think you are saying it accurately. Making statements like "the Magisterium is not infallible" sounds just like how it sounds - like you believe that there's no infallibility there. That is incorrect because the Magisterium IS infallible. No one here is saying its always exercises infallibly forexample it needs to be about faith and morals to be infallible. So it would be clearer if you said "the Magisterium is infallible WHEN...".. Because when you say the "Magisterium is not infallible" people would read that just as it sounds like, as if you are saying it makes no infallible acts. The truth is it IS infallible in the cases the Church describes.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

I hear what your saying MarysLittleFlower, but you bretheren saying the magesterium is infallible also leads people to believe that it is never in error, though of course those documents state that the magesterium can never be so erroneous as to lead the faithful away from faith.

Edited July 31, 2015 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye