Strength and Honor

[PhuturePriest]

I know I'm biased because he's my boss and all, but anyone interested should sign up for this conference on masculinity being put on. Here is a Vortex explaining it:

http://www.churchmilitant.com/video/episode/the-vortexstrength-and-honor

We need to reverse the wussification of men. Put down the mascara and grow a beard.

[CrossCuT]

Wussification of men? Really?

[Era Might]

I don't find hysterical crusades against the Forces of Evil particularly masculine. Being a soldier in a Culture War is a pretty tame type of war. But he has some good points in there.

[marigold]

I don't find hysterical crusades against the Forces of Evil particularly masculine. Being a soldier in a Culture War is a pretty tame type of war. But he has some good points in there.

Indeed.

[Credo in Deum]

I believe he makes some good points and I wish I could attend his conference.  I wonder if Vorris has met Sam Guzman and the great work he is doing at The Catholic Gentleman?  

[CrossCuT]

I had to stop reading after the first paragraph where he judges a mans character based on the clothes he wears. I hope society can move past such superficial attitudes and move on to a place where men and women can be judged on their actions and not the ridiculousness that is Vorris Videos. Can anyone see how restricting and detrimental these stereotypes are?

 

But leave the emotion to the women amirite?? Men need to be to have rippling abs and pound hammers all day or else you might as well wear a dress. Should we laugh at all priests for wearing dresses?

[MarysLittleFlower]

I think that clothing should be distinct for men and women... Doesn't mean judging anyone's heart. But I think it makes more sense for clothing to be district. Cassocks / robes (like from 2000 years ago), still look different from women's fashions. 

[Not The Philosopher]

idk most guys I think wouldn't touch that girly fashion stuff with a stick.

I mean, growing up, becoming a man was largely associated with getting laid and getting drunk (see every teen/college movie ever) as opposed to being chivalrous and self-sacrificing, so it's fair to say that boys could use some better role models.

But this culture strikes me less as overly feminized and more just plain crass, vulgar and utilitarian than anything else.

[Guest]

Try to get Mr. Voris to post on here lol

[MarysLittleFlower]

idk most guys I think wouldn't touch that girly fashion stuff with a stick.

I mean, growing up, becoming a man was largely associated with getting laid and getting drunk (see every teen/college movie ever) as opposed to being chivalrous and self-sacrificing, so it's fair to say that boys could use some better role models.

But this culture strikes me less as overly feminized and more just plain crass, vulgar and utilitarian than anything else.

i see what you mean... And how society sees feminine is vulgar too. True femininity is like Our Lady

[Era Might]

idk most guys I think wouldn't touch that girly fashion stuff with a stick.

I mean, growing up, becoming a man was largely associated with getting laid and getting drunk (see every teen/college movie ever) as opposed to being chivalrous and self-sacrificing, so it's fair to say that boys could use some better role models.

But this culture strikes me less as overly feminized and more just plain crass, vulgar and utilitarian than anything else.

Here's a good article/interview I happened to read today that deals with this topic (among others):

http://www.thestraddler.com/201412/piece7.php

What led Goodman to write Growing Up Absurd was a conversation he had with a bunch of teenagers on the beach in Hamilton, Ontario. He asked them what their hopes for the future were, and they had none. He was so saddened by that. It stuck with him. Rereading it, I realized that the whole book is focused on the youth heading for prison. That is to say, it’s about the juvenile delinquent, whom he saw as an outcast. In a sense his guiding question was, How can a person who wants to be a member of the society grow up to that society if the jobs they are doing are not meaningful? A lot of jobs exist just to hold the system together. They don’t have anything to do with eating or having a place to live. Today it’s much harder to imagine a job you want to do. This is one of the direct causes of the creation of an underclass. If you can’t fit into the society that there is, then there’s no place for you.  If there’s no community, then what are you called to?

....

Today the prisons are an institutional burden and a disaster for the whole culture—not just the people who are in them. That’s one reason why someone needs to revise this list. For instance, we must take into account the way that the youth culture has developed. The gangs have become rival entrepreneurs of drugs, and the violence has increased, partly because of the weapons. We still have the gangs, but they have different motives, different turfs, different weapons. The youth on the streets today, all they have is rough-and-ready comradeship, like Middle Ages knights on their way to the crusades. People are in danger on the streets because the young have nothing to live for. Once they go to prison, sometimes they grow out of that. But prison is a place that tends to reinforce those feelings, too.

...

The last book that Goodman published before he died was called The New Reformation.[20] He had a conception of what the youth movement was about and he saw it as a parallel to what the Reformation had been: the discovery of individual power rather than group power. The youth movement was a spiritual calling in the absence of a truly spiritual model. Now we’re at the point where everybody feels a desperate lack of faith. And everywhere in the world there are attempts to make it up. But you can’t live without spiritual meaning or faith—you have to believe that there’s something more.

I know young people who are full of a kind of faith looking for its object. It’s pretty hard to find, given the state of the larger world. It’s hard not to be pretty pessimistic. And most people are in fact cynical about it all—cynicism is the next step before despair! But when you meet someone who’s found something to believe in—they are lit up. They’re illuminated!

[CrossCuT]

Gender roles are constructs of society put in place to control how people act and think. The ultimate goal is to be a good, loving person; the attire you choose to wear is irrelevant. A woman who wears "manly" colors and bootcut pantaloons is no less feminine than a woman who wears dresses and pumps (that ish is uncomfortable, sorry not sorry). Likewise a man who enjoys the arts or non physically demanding roles is not the product of "wussification" as well as a woman who wants to work construction or get her hands dirty is not a butch. Supporting such things is an extreme detriment to the vast diversity of thought and personality that is all humans.

I think Voris should stay away from PM.

Edited July 17, 2015 by CrossCuT

[Guest]

I want Voris to start posting haha

[MarysLittleFlower]

I don't agree that gender roles are just made up by society. Men and women have differences and gender roles are expressions of this truth. If we take away the expression of a truth, perception of a truth begins to disappear in that society. But it doesn't mean some idea that men should lift weights online and can't do something like be a painter. It's not objectively feminine to be a painter. It depends what we'retalking about. For myself I believe in my conduct and appearance reflecting who I am, and I'm a woman so trying to be like a guy is like I'd be lying. 

[Ice_nine]

I think that clothing should be distinct for men and women... Doesn't mean judging anyone's heart. But I think it makes more sense for clothing to be district. Cassocks / robes (like from 2000 years ago), still look different from women's fashions. 

speaking of 2000 years ago . . .

In every piece of art I've seen women and men in the time of Christ, and for centuries afterwards, seemed to be wearing the same tunic-type thingy-ma-bobbers. It seems to me there was more distinctions in dress between your social class than there were between the sexes. I'll welcome any fashion historians to correct me if I'm wrong, but if I am wrong you should probably tell about every single artist who paints or sculpts Mary/Joseph/Jesus etc because they all look like they're wearing the same thing to me.

I tend to think these matters are trifling.