veritasluxmea Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 This is why Phatmass can't have nice things. The drama is slowly killing Phatmass, and it's why we never have new members who last more than a month. I didn't read the site and I don't really care (this guy basically sums up what I think of being outside the sterotypical gender box) but the silly, exaggerated argument about clothes aside, I think this is a real issue. Little things like having abbreviations defined by hovering over and a thread explaining tags are helpful to new members, so good ideas there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice_nine Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 FP, there's no drama here. Just a discussion, and a pretty tame one at that. Did you really just want everyone to post "yeah this is amesome!"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritasluxmea Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 FP, there's no drama here. Just a discussion, and a pretty tame one at that. Did you really just want everyone to post "yeah this is amesome!"? I think the "issue of new members" is something worth thinking about, drama or no drama. And tension in discussion (or whatever it can be called) has driven off nice people in the past, and currently does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintOfVirtue Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 People get offended way to easily nowadays. Shrug it off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puellapaschalis Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 People get offended way to easily nowadays. Shrug it off. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfWlot6h_JM Couldn't resist #SorryNotSorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatitude Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 We cant put individuals into rigid categories....it just doenst work; people are far too diverse and complex to be boiled down to frou frou girls and lumberjack men. Im not a fan of any of that and Im a huge advocate of the gender non conforming approach to life as it opens up and releases soooo many people from the chains of stereotypes. What makes a Trans person a woman or man by my libby Feminist standards? I dont know. But I am open to the fact that there is more to the picture and I will support their new identity as a woman or man just as I would support a woman or man who wanted to maintain their identity in any way they choose. I know this will be unacceptable to you because you are looking for an answer that you can sort into a category. You can go ahead and sort me into the bad feminists category though. But seriously, its a good question! I actually brought it up with my fiance because I wasnt sure how to answer. It was a good food for thought sort of thing and we had a good discussion about it. When Lilllabettt wrote 'liberal feminist', I don't think she was using the word 'liberal' in the way you seem to be interpreting it. There is a particular stream of feminism called liberal feminism, sometimes known as third-wave feminism. The other major stream is radical feminism. Radical feminists are gender-critical and see the whole concept of transgenderism as shoring up the idea of binary gender identities rather than challenging them. Liberal feminists do not see things this way and in my experience there are a lot of internal contradictions in their views - they will criticise the idea that pink is for girls and blue is for boys, for example, but when Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner describes feeling pulled to womanhood by dresses and makeup they don't see any problem with the statement. To be honest I've never heard a solid libfem argument on this topic - they almost always seem to boil down to "I don't know", and while I respect that for the honesty and the humility, and I definitely agree that it can be harmful to start judging other people's personal experiences in life, it's not exactly a robust basis for a critique of gender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 I think the "issue of new members" is something worth thinking about, drama or no drama. And tension in discussion (or whatever it can be called) has driven off nice people in the past, and currently does. Love the avatar by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritasluxmea Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Love the avatar by the way. Thank you, me too. I want some other phatmassers to do the rest of the team. I nominate @PhuturePriest for Beast Boy, @Credo in Deum for Cyborg, @Gabriela for Starfire, and you for Robin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Credo in Deum Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritasluxmea Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 #squadgoals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintOfVirtue Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Thank you, me too. I want some other phatmassers to do the rest of the team. I nominate @PhuturePriest for Beast Boy, @Credo in Deum for Cyborg, @Gabriela for Starfire, and you for Robin. I think Nihil Obstat is more of a My Little Pony avatar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted July 20, 2015 Author Share Posted July 20, 2015 FP, there's no drama here. Just a discussion, and a pretty tame one at that. Did you really just want everyone to post "yeah this is amesome!"? I posted it for men interested in going to the conference, which I thought rather clear. It had more to do with the conference than anything else. Everyone just assumed it was about the opinions in the video, which it wasn't. If you're a guy and you agree with what he said and want to go to the conference, this is your chance. That was the purpose behind the thread. It wasn't asking for commentary on how we liked or disliked his wording. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 (edited) Thank you, me too. I want some other phatmassers to do the rest of the team. I nominate @PhuturePriest for Beast Boy, @Credo in Deum for Cyborg, @Gabriela for Starfire, and you for Robin. No good, because as a young boy I always had a crush on Raven. Edited July 20, 2015 by Nihil Obstat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriela Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 (edited) Thank you, me too. I want some other phatmassers to do the rest of the team. I nominate @PhuturePriest for Beast Boy, @Credo in Deum for Cyborg, @Gabriela for Starfire, and you for Robin. No good, because as a young boy I always had a crush on Raven. I have no idea what we're talking about, but I'm guessing it has something to do with that picture. I do agree that veritas' avatar is aesthetically pleasing. The lines of the outer circle overlap nicely with those of the inner circle. And the purple is a nice shade. I also feel flattered to be invited to join some kind of cartoon gang. I like cartoons. Edited July 20, 2015 by Gabriela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilllabettt Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 I feel like you basically answered your own question here, but I do think this is an extremely important question. "What can a liberal feminist say but that transgender identity is a mental disease"? My answer is pretty simple, but let me preface that I understand that you, Voris, and maybe others in this thread view the world with a specific frame of mind; people have to fit into designated molds. Women have to fit into the woman category and men have to fit into the man category. If individuals deviate even a little, there is something wrong with them and we put them into other categories like butch, gay, qwerty, wussies, tomboys, disordered etc. And in some ways, I do understand that the Catholic Church (big C) has to treat it this way. They NEED to have categories in order to sort through what is and isnt acceptable. They need to define what a real woman is in order to show us what to aspire to likewise with men. And we all have these categories, but some pools of thought are much broader than others...I just happen to completely disagree with this although I dont think their view is NEARLY as rigid as Voris is making it out to be. My answer really is just that I dont think we know everything there is to know. To form concrete identity groups to sort people into based on our limited knowledge of the world is a huge detriment to progress and forward thinking. We are on the cusp of something new and Im willing keep an open mind to learning more about human sexuality than what we currently have discovered. We cant put individuals into rigid categories....it just doenst work; people are far too diverse and complex to be boiled down to frou frou girls and lumberjack men. Im not a fan of any of that and Im a huge advocate of the gender non conforming approach to life as it opens up and releases soooo many people from the chains of stereotypes. What makes a Trans person a woman or man by my libby Feminist standards? I dont know. But I am open to the fact that there is more to the picture and I will support their new identity as a woman or man just as I would support a woman or man who wanted to maintain their identity in any way they choose. I know this will be unacceptable to you because you are looking for an answer that you can sort into a category. You can go ahead and sort me into the bad feminists category though. But seriously, its a good question! I actually brought it up with my fiance because I wasnt sure how to answer. It was a good food for thought sort of thing and we had a good discussion about it. Would you like to join me in a koombaya dance? Please see beatitude's post about what liberal feminism is. You are probably a liberal feminist without even knowing it. That's because it's pop feminism. I asked the question about transgenderism because it tends to foment intellectual crisis in garden variety liberal feminists. Burn the forest down and something more authentic may grow in its place. I am more of a difference feminist, which has its own problems. But you can probably tell I don't think much of liberal feminism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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