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dairygirl4u2c

can God act contrary to logic?

can God act contrary to logic?  

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Gabriela

Even, hypothetically, if God were illogical, we would not be capable of making that determination, would we? Can I determine if Stephen Hawking's theories are correct applications of physics? Some things he says may not make a whole lot of sense to me but I don't have sufficient knowledge about physics to say if they are right or wrong . . .

But God is about a zillion times more intelligent than Stephen Hawking. So it seems to me that if God were to say 1 + 1 + 1 = 1, for example, the reason why it may SEEM illogical may be that I am not sufficiently intelligent to understand it, rather than it being a mistake or something that is inconsistent with logic .  . .

But even though I don't think we are capable of making a determination of whether God has acted consistency with human logic, I don't see any reason why He should be bound by it. As Liugi wrote, He created the universe and the laws that govern it. He can change those any time that He wants to (such as with miracles, etc).

This ^.

God not only can act "contrary" to human logic, He is contrary to human logic. 3 = 1? Wha? :P 

It doesn't make Him any less real...

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reyb

:nono: This is an example of what I am talking about a while ago. (Pardon me on this Gabriela).

As I have said, They too confess that ‘God is not illogical’ and reason-out that ‘God is beyond our rational mind’ whenever they fail to explain their own ‘irrational beliefs’....and they are obviously doing it in trying to rationalize them. Sometimes, they are hiding in the word 'mystery'.

This kind of faith has no foundation other than a believer's willingness to accept it to be true. 

On the other hand, true believers will never accept any  irrational ideas because, rationalizing a lie is actually honoring and embracing it. Thus, Why then he will accept that 3 is 1?

God is not contrary to human logic because God is beyond our rational mind'. And they know it too well (Take note: they did not just 'believe' in it). 

  

 

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Peace

ReyB - are you a native English speaker? Just wondering.

It has been a bit tough for me to figure out exactly what it is that you are trying to say . . .

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reyb

ReyB - are you a native English speaker? Just wondering.

It has been a bit tough for me to figure out exactly what it is that you are trying to say . . .

No, I really need  a good english teacher. Thank you.

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Peace

No, I really need  a good english teacher. Thank you.

Maybe you can work on your English for a few years and then come back to say whatever it is that you want to say?

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reyb

Maybe you can work on your English for a few years and then come back to say whatever it is that you want to say?

:smile2:really?

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dairygirl4u2c

i never really put two and two together on this point. i voted that God can't be illogical as did most. but i think most people perhaps including me say the trinity is not logical. so perhaps i'm and we are not being the most consistent. ive heard some people say the trinity is not iloogical, but haven't seen compelling argumentation about it. 

consider this: the son is God, the father is God, the son is not the father and they are not separate Gods.

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FancyPantsMcGovern

I would say, not contrary to logic, but not according to reason. For example, to love the Cross and not avoid suffering when it comes your way is to act not according to reason, but not necessarily illogically.

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BarbaraTherese

Is it logical that bread and wine should become the Body and Blood of Jesus?  Is it logical that someone dying of lung cancer should have the cancer completely disappear?

 

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Jack4

The emperor, after having expressed himself so forcefully, goes on to explain in detail the reasons why spreading the faith through violence is something unreasonable. Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul. "God", he says, "is not pleased by blood - and not acting reasonably (σὺν λόγω) is contrary to God's nature. Faith is born of the soul, not the body. Whoever would lead someone to faith needs the ability to speak well and to reason properly, without violence and threats... To convince a reasonable soul, one does not need a strong arm, or weapons of any kind, or any other means of threatening a person with death...".

The decisive statement in this argument against violent conversion is this: not to act in accordance with reason is contrary to God's nature. The editor, Theodore Khoury, observes: For the emperor, as a Byzantine shaped by Greek philosophy, this statement is self-evident. But for Muslim teaching, God is absolutely transcendent. His will is not bound up with any of our categories, even that of rationality.

 

"Not to act reasonably, not to act with logos, is contrary to the nature of God", said Manuel II, according to his Christian understanding of God, in response to his Persian interlocutor. It is to this great logos, to this breadth of reason, that we invite our partners in the dialogue of cultures.

 

- Pope Benedict XVI, Regensburg address

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dairygirl4u2c
On 8/1/2015 at 9:09 AM, dairygirl4u2c said:

to say God cannot lie, or cannot be evil etc is a statement surrounded by logic. if God could be illogical, it would mean GOd can lie or be evil. it would also mean impossible things like. God can be and not be at teh same time etc

i disagree with myself. i now say even if god can be illogical it doesn't mean he can be evil and good at the same time. you can be illogical and still not be evil. 

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White Knight

If God can hold the sun from moving any further to allow Joshua to win so the day lasts longer and it defies the logical astrological norms by not allowing the sun to set I would say defies basic logical explanations.

If God can part the Red Sea through Moses's staff without  any explanation of how it happened logically I would say basic miracles defy our logical rules and regulations, He is God after all and nothing is impossible for Him.

Did he transform Water into Wine?

Did He transform The River Nile into Blood?

Did He multiply the Fish and the Loaves? 

Was He responsible for the Incarnation & the Virgin Birth?

Was He responsible for the Resurrection of Lazarus, the Widows Son, the Jauris's Daughter? His Own Resurrection?

Did He speak through a Donkey by the Holy Spirit?

Did He ignite the fire of Elijah's Sacrifice on Mount Carmel? 

Did He cause the utter destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah? 

Did he allow Manna to fall from the sky? 

I could go on and on all this can't be explained logically. 

The amesome Power of God is not Limited to our finite rules and regulations. 

 
 

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Tab'le De'Bah-Rye
On 01/08/2015 at 11:09 PM, dairygirl4u2c said:

to say God cannot lie, or cannot be evil etc is a statement surrounded by logic. if God could be illogical, it would mean GOd can lie or be evil. it would also mean impossible things like. God can be and not be at teh same time etc

Why would someone who is good deliberately decieve someone they love for no apparent reason? If there was reason for the deception and that reason was to lead to a greater good then it would not be a deception at all because a deception is to mislead and in this case it would be a lesson to learn a greater good therefore not a lie. Children are taught sometimes by moral fairytales, though not the truth they contain a truth. Perhaps?

On 22/08/2017 at 3:19 AM, Jack4 said:

The emperor, after having expressed himself so forcefully, goes on to explain in detail the reasons why spreading the faith through violence is something unreasonable. Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul. "God", he says, "is not pleased by blood - and not acting reasonably (σὺν λόγω) is contrary to God's nature. Faith is born of the soul, not the body. Whoever would lead someone to faith needs the ability to speak well and to reason properly, without violence and threats... To convince a reasonable soul, one does not need a strong arm, or weapons of any kind, or any other means of threatening a person with death...".

The decisive statement in this argument against violent conversion is this: not to act in accordance with reason is contrary to God's nature. The editor, Theodore Khoury, observes: For the emperor, as a Byzantine shaped by Greek philosophy, this statement is self-evident. But for Muslim teaching, God is absolutely transcendent. His will is not bound up with any of our categories, even that of rationality.

 

"Not to act reasonably, not to act with logos, is contrary to the nature of God", said Manuel II, according to his Christian understanding of God, in response to his Persian interlocutor. It is to this great logos, to this breadth of reason, that we invite our partners in the dialogue of cultures.

 

- Pope Benedict XVI, Regensburg address

The lord god does have a reason for everything including man and woman's free will.

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