St Therese and roses

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

Thanks for the chaplet ! I did not know it, but I wanted to pray Ste Therese tonight, and I will try it ! 

It is very simple and great when your worn out. Make sure the st therese of liseux is said only once and the little white flower etc is said 8 times. 

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

St. Therese hates me. I've tried novenas and no roses.  I'm actually sort of serious.

Part of me believes in novenas and another part of me feels that there is something superstitious in having to say a prayer exactly nine times. 

Sorry to dash people's image of me. Just now someone changed one of my posts to say "It's just a cross to bear." That's a very Catholic phrase and I'm not Catholic, no matter what people might want to wish or imagine. 

[MarysLittleFlower]

Signs are only given if God sees we need a sign. Not having a sign doesn't mean St Therese isn't praying for you. if it helps, I only received these signs in the beginning usually. Now when I pray to St Therese I don't get roses in these ways but that doesn't change that she is praying for me. Its actually more perfect without a sign signs and consolations are given when we are weak and need encouragement but dark faith is more perfect  

St Therese herself did not ask for consolations! Sometimes theyre not given so we can make an act of faith.... she is a great friend though and always prays roses or no roses. As for novenas I think the number nine originated from the original nine day prayer the Apostles did before Pentecost. 

Have you ever read her book?

Edited August 7, 2015 by MarysLittleFlower

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

oh maybe that chaplet i was revealed is x9 little white flower etc. It has been so long since i did it i have forgot.

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

Signs are only given if God sees we need a sign. Not having a sign doesn't mean St Therese isn't praying for you. if it helps, I only received these signs in the beginning usually. Now when I pray to St Therese I don't get roses in these ways but that doesn't change that she is praying for me. Its actually more perfect without a sign signs and consolations are given when we are weak and need encouragement but dark faith is more perfect  

St Therese herself did not ask for consolations! Sometimes theyre not given so we can make an act of faith.... she is a great friend though and always prays roses or no roses. As for novenas I think the number nine originated from the original nine day prayer the Apostles did before Pentecost. 

Have you ever read her book?

Sorry, but no. I've read a lot of Catholic books--in fact, virtually every religious book I've read in the past five years has been Catholic and I read a Catholic Bible. I know St. Therese is beloved, but I find her a bit too precious. Based on what I've heard of her writings. St. Therese had some very wise things to say, but at this point in my life, I would have a difficult time getting past her writing style, which reflects the times she lived in. Perhaps later.

Edited August 7, 2015 by IgnatiusofLoyola

[Ash Wednesday]

I thought I'd mention that I'm praying the Therese novena for someone else....

 

 

but.....

 

 

 

My husband bought me roses today.

 

*thud*

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

St. Therese hates me. I've tried novenas and no roses.  I'm actually sort of serious.

Part of me believes in novenas and another part of me feels that there is something superstitious in having to say a prayer exactly nine times. 

Sorry to dash people's image of me. Just now someone changed one of my posts to say "It's just a cross to bear." That's a very Catholic phrase and I'm not Catholic, no matter what people might want to wish or imagine. 

funny that you say say a prayer and not pray to saints.  so your ok with praying to saints just not repetitively? 

[MarysLittleFlower]

You might like her sisters book My Sister St Therese - its just little stories about her I know St Therese's writing style is flowery, personally I love it but not all do. However her spirituality is very serious - more serious than it seems. She suffered the dark night of the soul with no complaint and through nothing but faith.

Edited August 7, 2015 by MarysLittleFlower

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

funny that you say say a prayer and not pray to saints.  so your ok with praying to saints just not repetitively? 

Yup, I frequently pray for the intercession of the saints. It's not that I don't also pray directly to Jesus/God, but I really like the idea of having "friends" who will pray for me. Perhaps it's because I feel my own prayers are weak.

But, yes, it's the repetition of exactly 9 times that begins to suggest superstition, and "magical thinking" that if a person prays a certain prayer 9 times, God is more likely to grant their request, or the saint is more likely to listen, versus other types of prayer.

But, as I said earlier, I am not rejecting novenas, I'm just not sure of them. Some of the people I respect most on Phatmass believe in the power of novenas, so I'm not rejecting them AT ALL. I've said before that there are some Catholic beliefs and practices I'm not sure about, and this is one of them. However, I haven't stopped listening, and have even said novenas myself, usually because I know that it would mean a lot to the person I'm praying for that I've said a novena for them.

[MarysLittleFlower]

Just in my understanding - its not that one prayer isn't good... More that a novena shows and develops perseverance in prayer... There's probably more reasons that I'm just not aware of  

[Ash Wednesday]

Part of me believes in novenas and another part of me feels that there is something superstitious in having to say a prayer exactly nine times. 

Ideally, it isn't about a regimented number, it's supposed to be a period of reflection and prayer with a particular saint, devotion, and intention. The 9 days originated in the period of prayer between Ascencion and Pentecost when the Apostles gathered with Mary and prayed before the coming of the Holy Spirit. Christians started praying 9 days to Christmas (symbolizing 9 months of Jesus being in Mary's womb). I guess the nines had it! Hope that helps.

http://newtheologicalmovement.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/what-is-significance-of-novena-why-nine.html

[Archaeology cat]

St. Therese hates me. I've tried novenas and no roses.  I'm actually sort of serious.

Part of me believes in novenas and another part of me feels that there is something superstitious in having to say a prayer exactly nine times. 

Sorry to dash people's image of me. Just now someone changed one of my posts to say "It's just a cross to bear." That's a very Catholic phrase and I'm not Catholic, no matter what people might want to wish or imagine. 

The 9 days are because of the 9 days of prayer from the Ascension to Pentecost.  

Sorry, but no. I've read a lot of Catholic books--in fact, virtually every religious book I've read in the past five years has been Catholic and I read a Catholic Bible. I know St. Therese is beloved, but I find her a bit too precious. Based on what I've heard of her writings. St. Therese had some very wise things to say, but at this point in my life, I would have a difficult time getting past her writing style, which reflects the times she lived in. Perhaps later.

I know what you mean. I was reluctant to read it or like her for the same reasons. Her diary isn't my fave book, but I did like it, surprisingly. I do personally relate more to her parents, though. 

[beatitude]

Yup, I frequently pray for the intercession of the saints. It's not that I don't also pray directly to Jesus/God, but I really like the idea of having "friends" who will pray for me. Perhaps it's because I feel my own prayers are weak.

But, yes, it's the repetition of exactly 9 times that begins to suggest superstition, and "magical thinking" that if a person prays a certain prayer 9 times, God is more likely to grant their request, or the saint is more likely to listen, versus other types of prayer.

But, as I said earlier, I am not rejecting novenas, I'm just not sure of them. Some of the people I respect most on Phatmass believe in the power of novenas, so I'm not rejecting them AT ALL. I've said before that there are some Catholic beliefs and practices I'm not sure about, and this is one of them. However, I haven't stopped listening, and have even said novenas myself, usually because I know that it would mean a lot to the person I'm praying for that I've said a novena for them.

I used to think I was no good at praying novenas, because I always forget to pray the formal prayers in the middle of them. But as others have said, it's not the number of prayers that's important, it's the symbolism - the apostles and Mary retreated to the upper room and had nine days of prayer before the Holy Spirit descended among them. They needed to pray because of all the upheaval and terror and hope and joy that had transfigured their lives during the Passion, which is why Catholics tend to make a novena when we are facing a particularly difficult or demanding time. It signifies our own desire to enter that upper room along with Mary and the apostles, to let the Holy Spirit come to us. Invoking that memory of the upper room is a form of prayer in itself. As Pentecost is regarded as the birthday of the church, that upper room gathering is the first image we have of the Church at prayer, which is why I like praying novenas in company with others - they remind me that I am "a link in a chain, a bond of connection between persons" as Cardinal Newman put it, and reinforce my sense of belonging in the Church. This is true even when I forget to pray the formal prayers associated with a novena. Often I just pray in my own words, or remember the stories and sayings of whichever saint the novena is directed to - it's not the exact words that are important, but the intention and the meaning.

Edited August 7, 2015 by beatitude
Typo

[AccountDeleted]

Sorry, but no. I've read a lot of Catholic books--in fact, virtually every religious book I've read in the past five years has been Catholic and I read a Catholic Bible. I know St. Therese is beloved, but I find her a bit too precious. Based on what I've heard of her writings. St. Therese had some very wise things to say, but at this point in my life, I would have a difficult time getting past her writing style, which reflects the times she lived in. Perhaps later.

You are not alone in this Iggy. I have read all of her books plus many others written about her, plus letters between her and her sisters, and I just can't get past the writing style and the whole 'Little Flower' thing. Plus, I don't agree with a lot of the things she says. But then that's just me. I have never been big on idealising the saints. I love reading some of them, especially the ones that have a style I can relate to. I adore St John of the Cross, even though some of his earlier books are hard going. I really enjoyed St Teresa Benedicta of the Cross in her book 'The Science of the Cross' about St John's writings. St Teresa of Avila is good reading but once again, there is a lot that leaves me cold.

I think God reveals Himself to each one of us in a way that works for us individually. If I can agree with anything St Therese said, it is that each one of us is a unique flower in God's garden. Or as Monty Python would say: "We are all individuals!"  [pause]  "I'm not."   

 

[beatitude]

You are not alone in this Iggy. I have read all of her books plus many others written about her, plus letters between her and her sisters, and I just can't get past the writing style and the whole 'Little Flower' thing. Plus, I don't agree with a lot of the things she says. But then that's just me. I have never been big on idealising the saints. I love reading some of them, especially the ones that have a style I can relate to. I adore St John of the Cross, even though some of his earlier books are hard going. I really enjoyed St Teresa Benedicta of the Cross in her book 'The Science of the Cross' about St John's writings. St Teresa of Avila is good reading but once again, there is a lot that leaves me cold.

I think God reveals Himself to each one of us in a way that works for us individually. If I can agree with anything St Therese said, it is that each one of us is a unique flower in God's garden. Or as Monty Python would say: "We are all individuals!"  [pause]  "I'm not."   

 

I find most of St Therese's writings far too sugary-sweet. Story of a Soul practically induced diabetes in me when I read it, it was that sickly. I realise that this was the writing style of nineteenth-century France (and that one of her blood sisters actually edited some of her work to make it even more flowery) but it's still hard to get past. So it was refreshing to discover the book St Therese: The Last Conversations. These are conversations that were jotted down by her Carmelite sisters during her final months. Although these excerpts are often fragmentary, that book came as a breath of cool fresh air to me, and it allowed me to see St Therese as she was in her own speech and daily life. There is a big difference between the spoken Therese and the written Therese, and I really love that book.