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Archbishop 10-K

Jesuits

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Archbishop 10-K    0
Archbishop 10-K
What's going on with the Jesuits? I keep hearing about how they're becoming increasingly liberal, rebelling against Rome, and I even hear accusations of open homosexuality and other scary stuff.

Is it safe for an orthodox, Vatican-loving Catholic to join the Jesuits?

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popestpiusx    3
popestpiusx
All I can say is, beware of the sodomites. They are bad news. If you are orthodox, you will be licky to even make it through. They weed folks like out, unless you are good at keeping your head down.

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daugher-of-Mary    0
daugher-of-Mary
Yeah, I've heard a lot of stories about Jesuits, but there have been rumors going around about them for hundreds of years. How are you supposed to tell fact from fiction? :blink:

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Crusader_4    0
Crusader_4
LOL (this is probably my 20th post defending the Jesuits). Since the 1700's there have been a lot of "mystique" about them simple short of it is it is a great order orthodox in nature one only needs to read their consituation or attend the Spiritual exercises to see the orthodoxy the order has. However, the order gives its members a fair amount of freedom to serve the lord and as a result mostly in America some have abused that freedom and become liberal. This tends only to be a problem in the US Province. In Canada and the rest of the world the Jesuits are held with VERY high esteem especially in Asia (some countries will only let Jesuits work in their country i.e. Tibet and I think Nepal too will not let any Catholic or protestants teach or work in their country only Jesuits). Also some of the greatest Saints are jesuits like St. Francis Xavier, Ignatius, and crusader1234 big saing St. Jean Brebeuf. Protestants love to pick at the Jesuits and even some catholics because of their fourth vow of obidence to the Pope. Which makes them especially dispensible to any job the Pope wants them to do. If you have ne questions about the order or the history feel free to pm me or ask me about it i am fairly well versed in it. They are also the largest order in the Catholic Church.

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crusader1234    0
crusader1234
I agree with Will, even though I don't get this

[quote] Also some of the greatest Saints are jesuits like St. Francis Xavier, Ignatius, and crusader1234[/quote]

The Jesuits are upstanding citizens, and more importantly, upstanding Catholics. I can guarantee that the order itself does not rebel against the Pope, however individual Priests might.

PSPX do you want to clarify what you said? I dont get it.

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PedroX    0
PedroX
Crusader_4

While I agree that one must always examine the record carefully, I feel you are letting the Jesuits off too easy. Not only have many Jesuits in America gone off the deep end, members of the order were largely responsible for the attrocious "Liberation Theology" and even took up arms to fight in several Central American revolutions. Yes, there are very holy members (Avery Cardinal Dulles, etc) but there are a lot of problems as well. You might want to read Malachi Martin's book on the subject.

peace...

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Archbishop 10-K    0
Archbishop 10-K
There is no doubt in my mind that the Jesuits have been one of the greatest orders (if not THE greatest) in history. However, it's still a question of whether or not being a Jesuit today, while still being a true, blue papist (a title I'm proud to wear) faithful to the Magisterium is safe. Perhaps I should say here that I live in the USA. Edited by Archbishop 10-K

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Crusader_4    0
Crusader_4
I do know quite a bit about the Jesuits in South America as well...for example had it not been for the Jesuits Romero would of never taken the stand however they were active in some of the revolutions no doubt and that was wrong. AT the same time though i think to say the order was corrupted by liberalisim is simply not true. In Canada and the rest of the world the still remain "The Pope's Men" it is only in the colleges of the States that this liberalization has happened. And it is simply ending now as the new priests and seminarians are more orthodox. I honestly can say that they are the greatest order however if an indvidual is weak the order is not for them and since they are the largest order there are many weak individuals that give them a bad name. AMDG!

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Crusader_4    0
Crusader_4
Also, indviduals in the Church have committed atrocities and we do not say the Catholic Church is rotten to the core or wrong. In a sense its the same with the Jesuits one needs to look as Pedro X has pointed out a balanced picture...but at the same time the Triumphs of the Jesuits continue to bring glory to the Greater Glory to God. If you lived in Asia for example and especially south east asia had it not been for the Jesuits Christianity would b null they still run the show down there as well as in India. These are areas where the Jesuits strive as an orthodox order and truly the Popes men. Had it not been for them Christianity in many regions would be non existent. These regions include: All of Asia, Canada and native communites St. Jean Brebeuf is a prime example of this, South America. Although christianity would have arrived at these areas had the Jesuits the Jesuits were the trail blazers that in many cases paved the road in their blood. I am not saying other orders didnt play a role but it was and in a good portion of the world it was the Jesuits who played and continue to play the leading role. Edited by Crusader_4

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popestpiusx    3
popestpiusx
Crusader, no one is disputing that the Jesuits have had a glorious past. Of course they have. And yes they produced many great saints. But around the time of the Council they busted flat. Yes, there are still some holy jesuits. But I think they would be the first to tell you (Fr. Hardon was quite clear on the issue, and many others such as Fr. Fessio and Fr. Maceli and former Jesuits who were more or less forced out such as Fr. Calvin Goodwin, Fr. Malachi Martin, Fr. Constantine Belasarius) that life for the holy, orthodox jesuit today is absolute hell. To claim that this is a uniquely American problem is playing naive. The Jesuits (today, and for 40 years) are corrupt as hell from the top down. The last few superior generals of the order (Arrupe, Dezza and Kolvenbach) have been quite liberal and have no reagrd for Rome. They are not the Pope's men. The Jesuits have almost single handedly brought down the catholic school system. Instead of the St. Jean de Brebufs they now boast of the Fr. Raymond Brown, Fr. Karl Rahner, Fr. Thomas Reece, Fr. Fernando Cardenal, Ernesto Cardenal, Miguel Brockman, Edgar Parrales, Alvaro Arguello, Teilhard de Chardin, Robert Drinan, John Courtney Murray etc. etc. That's just a few. I could go on. The Jesuits have led the post- Vatican II revolution to undermine the faith in every corner of the world and in every sphere of life. It is for that reason that the Holy Father was on the verge of suppressing them in the early 1980's. Unfortunatley he did not. But only because of Cardinal Casoroli, the Sec. of State.

All in all, the Jesiuts are a disaster of an order and there is no end in sight.

Here is an interesting article about them by a Jesuit:
[url="http://www.catholic.net/Catholic Church/Periodicals/Igpress/2002-05/essay.html"]http://www.catholic.net/Catholic Church/Periodicals/Ig...2-05/essay.html[/url]

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Pio Nono    0
Pio Nono
JMJ
6/16 - Eleventh Wednesday

It's funny to see the playful animosity betwen the Jesuits and the Dominicans. At the Angelicum in Rome (the Dominican school), they have a commemorative plaque that lists a bunch of dates, such as the founding of the order, the birth of Thomas Aquinas, the canonization dates of some of their famous members, &c. But there's a REALLY funny one that says, "18(whatever): The suppression of the Jesuits." Check it out if you're ever at the Ang.

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popestpiusx    3
popestpiusx
And he is a Jesuit (untouchable though through his military chaplaincy).

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Crusader_4    0
Crusader_4
Well i am not saying that there have not been corruptions but to say the order is corrupt from top down is simply untrue. They have lead the way in orthodoxy in Asia (really that is hardly disputed). I am not saying there have not been bad jesuits but i think that the Order is still good and in my mind the Greatest order of all time does it need to experience a revival yes in certain aspects i am not here to debate with you popestpiusx. I must say and you can tell from most of my posts i am very faithful and orthodox to the Church no doubt at alll and i credit my conversion to the Jesuits hands down. Had it not been for their schooling and capablities i would still be a head banging protestant. So i am not saying that they are perfect or nesscairly in good shape but i do think they are for me and for many others as crusader1234 will attest the greatest religious order in our minds. One last thing as well if a Jesuit lives up to the Jesuit ideal as mentioned in the Spiritual exercises and the constituion they have positioned themselves very well from that stand point the Order i feel is second to none it is really sad that too many priests and others abuse the awesome and i do mean awesome exercises and constition written by Ignatius had they only followed what the Jesuits really teach it would b magnificant. Edited by Crusader_4

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crusader1234    0
crusader1234
[quote]The Jesuits (today, and for 40 years) are corrupt as hell from the top down.[/quote]

This seems to be a total generalization, as well as showing a total lack of respect. Every single Jesuit I know is smart, well educated, charitable, and well versed in the doctrine of the Church.

It is ludicrous to say that they have no regard for Rome, or that they are not the Pope's men, otherwise they would have already broken from the Church!

The idea that evangelizing Asia and the schools they run is undermining faith is, well, wrong. In my opinion, supressing the Jesuits and their immense capacity for evangelization and teaching would be one of the most undermining things we could do,

Peace,

Rich

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popestpiusx    3
popestpiusx
Both Crusaders,

Let me again state that I have no doubt as to the greatness of the Jesuit order itself, or in its foundation. It was certainly one of the greatest missionary and educating orders in Church history and produced many great saints. I am not disputing that.

It is, in fact, a result of that early greatness that has made them so very devastating today. They have a virtual monopoly in the education field. Years ago these schools were outstanding examples of what Catholic education should be. How about now? Let's just look at a list of Colleges run by the Jesuits. You may recognize them. They are all known for being litle bastions (or very large bastions) of liberalism:
Boston College
College of the Holy Cross (Worcester, MA)
Creighton University
Fordham University (They actually have a couple decent Jesuit professors)
Georgetown University
Gonzaga University
Loyola College in Maryland
Loyola Marymount University (Los Angeles)
Loyola University Chicago
Marquette University
Saint Louis University
Santa Clara University
Seattle University
University of Detroit Mercy
University of San Francisco
University of Scranton
Wheeling Jesuit University
Xavier University

We'll stop there. That doesn't even include high schools, academies, or even a full list of colleges.

Your statement that "It is ludicrous to say that they have no regard for Rome, or that they are not the Pope's men, otherwise they would have already broken from the Church!" is naive. They are much more effective if they appear to be with Rome. Mahoney, Weakland, Sullivan (et al.) have no regard for Rome and they remain in "good standing".

Again, I am not claiming that there are no good Jesuits out there. Of course there are. But when the Superior General of the Order is awful (as have been the last three, who I already named) and the general body of the order is awful (as is easily demonstrated) and virtually every Jesuit institution (with some, but very few exceptions) is saturated with modernism/liberalism (and are therefore not evangelizing), then it is safe to say that the Order is corrupt from top down. Every orthodox Jesuit that I know would say the same thing (and has). And I haven't even mentioned the topic of the article I posted (which you need to read) about the problem of homosexuality in the Jesuit seminaries, which was written by a very orthodox Jesuit.

All in all, I would steer clear. When I see S.J. behind the name I am very cautious.

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Crusader_4    0
Crusader_4
One thing i want to mention is that regarding homosexuality in the Jesuits is it is very high through the whole catholic church and apologists such as Karl Keating are the first to point that out. I am not disagreeing with you Popestpiusx that the order has been corrupted signigantly by liberalism what i am saying though if one does live up to the Jesuit ideal as my experience with Jesuits has been they are very effective and the Jesuits in principle are not bad it is the individuals that have made this order wrong. The consitution beliefs of the order are very orthodox as well as the Spiritual exercises and i am sure popestpiusx your the first to talk about how important the exercises have been the hisotry of the Church and continue to be. It is truly a shame that certain indviduals have perverted what the Jesuits stand for. But i would not discourage any man from joining only if he is strong and orthodox and is wanting to live up to the Jesuit ideal not the perversion cause by others that is not Ignatian in any form.

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Guest JeffCR07   
Guest JeffCR07
In my heart, I love the Jesuits, but I think it is most certainly wise to be cautious. I'm not sure if this is true, but I heard that this past year they removed their 4th vow, thus severing their absolute devotion to the holy Father in Rome. I live in the US, so I am very gladdened by the things that the Crusaders have been saying about the order in the world-wide perspective.

Its so depressing to live in America. There are just so many terrible things here. The liberation theology that has been brought up earlier in the thread is still around, especially at "catholic" colleges. I think the best thing we can do is pray for a return, not just for the Jesuits in America, but for the Church in America, and anywhere else where there is unchecked and rampant unorthodoxy.

Come Home!

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popestpiusx    3
popestpiusx
It's not just an american problem. As I said before, it starts at the top of the order. That being said, I too love the Jesuits. It's a tragic what they have done to such a glorious order.

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