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is the trinity illogical?


dairygirl4u2c

is the trinity illogical? consider this: the son is God, the father is God, the son is not the father and they are not separate Gods.  

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I dunno if the liquid, ice, gas analogy is a good one - it seems a bit like modalism.

I don't think we know "what God is" or the full nature of the trinity. It is still considered a mystery of the faith.

I would say that it is "illogical" in the sense that it is beyond human reason or that it has not been completely revealed to us and we do not fully understand it.

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Another way to look at this is St. Patrick explanation of the Trinity    

 
According to legend, St. Patrick was traveling and happened upon a number of Irish chieftains along a meadow. The tribal leaders were curious about the Trinity and asked St. Patrick for an explanation. So he bent down, picked a shamrock, and showed it to them, and explained how the three leaves are part of the one plant, and how similarly the three Persons, Father, Son, and Spirit, are part of one Supreme Being.
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Another way to look at this is St. Patrick explanation of the Trinity    

 
According to legend, St. Patrick was traveling and happened upon a number of Irish chieftains along a meadow. The tribal leaders were curious about the Trinity and asked St. Patrick for an explanation. So he bent down, picked a shamrock, and showed it to them, and explained how the three leaves are part of the one plant, and how similarly the three Persons, Father, Son, and Spirit, are part of one Supreme Being.

I am pretty sure that one is a heresy too . . .

1) God is three persons

2) Each Person is Fully God

3) There is One God

I think the clovee analogy violates (2).

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 It's a metaphor 

Sorry. I don't really want to rain on your parade or anything. I don't think the clover analogy is a correct way to think about the Trinity.

But perhaps others here would agree with you.

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Don't you be dissing good St. Patrick, now

 Whether or not Saint Patrick actually used the above metaphor is neither here or there     He will always be remembered for the Expression

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237 The Trinity is a mystery of faith in the strict sense, one of the "mysteries that are hidden in God, which can never be known unless they are revealed by God".58 To be sure, God has left traces of his Trinitarian being in his work of creation and in his Revelation throughout the Old Testament. But his inmost Being as Holy Trinity is a mystery that is inaccessible to reason alone or even to Israel's faith before the Incarnation of God's Son and the sending of the Holy Spirit.

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Nihil Obstat

I dunno if the liquid, ice, gas analogy is a good one - it seems a bit like modalism.

 

Yes, that absolutely is modalism.

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PhuturePriest

It's not illogical -- it's beyond our ability to comprehend. There is a difference. Trying to comprehend the Trinity is like trying to bite a wall.

Part of being Christian (and particularly Catholic) is humility to admit that we as humans cannot comprehend and understand everything.

Edited by PhuturePriest
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The Trinity is one God in three eternal coexistent persons: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

deal with it!

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KnightofChrist

Most of the time the greatest problem people have with the Trinity is trying to understand how He can be One being but three persons.  So we use analogy to attempt to explain it. The trouble with any analogy is that it will fail in the end to completely explain. As CCC 297, that Peace posted states the Trinity is a mystery so any and all ways we try to explain it will fall to completely explain it. That being said I like the analogy of Time. Time is one, but Time is also three, past, present and future. A person is one but three, soul, mind and body. The analogies fail in the end to completely explain but they do show it is not illogical for something to be one, yet three at the same time.

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Sure, you can define the trinity as illogical if you want to. So what? It doesn't change the reality.

Logic is a tool - and only one tool - for understanding the world and everything in it. Humans and their emotions aren't logical, either, but that doesn't make them less real/true/actual.

 

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