Schmoozing with bishops and important people - how?

[oremus1]

Hi there

As many of you know, I wish to become a CV, and the main criteria in my new diocese are 1) is well known for being an important person and 2) schmoozing with the bishops and important prelates at every opportunity 3) aint no point doing good works unless you are seen to do good works. If a tree falls in the forest, does it make a sound???

What is the best way to do this? I am thinking if I make myself very ostentatious in the cathedral parish, I can maybe hang with the bishop after sunday mass. do bishops generally hang out with parishioners after sunday mass? how can I be friends with the bishop and vicar general.i am a young lady.

[MarysLittleFlower]

I have never heard of there being a requirement like this. Do you maybe mean being involved in the parish life? I am not a CV but I'd think a part of being a CV is living a quiet life of prayer, maybe even a hidden life, and not drawing attention to parish involvement or being ostentatious. Any parish involvement should be done for God and the Church alone not to bring attention to yourself to be noticed as a CV candidate. Imo ....

Its not a job but a vocation, and the best preparation for it is much prayer and seeking God's Will, not getting to know Bishops on friendly terms. A CV is a spouse of Christ and the best preparation imo is seeking to be like Him - humble, prayerful, submitted to God. Seeking attention and trying to be ostentatious at a parish is opposite to the virtues you'll need to focus on to actually live the life. 

I'm not sure what you mean by being an important person, but I believe its best to seek to be simple and humble like St Francis who sought to be the lowest of the low... That is more like who a consecrated person is. Jesus said if we exalt ourselves we would be humbled and if we humble ourselves we would be exalted. Being any type of consecrated soul means being a servant to the Church, not seeking attention or being important in anyone's eyes. That can distract. Jesus said who wants to be first needs to be last and those are greatest in Heaven who are like little children. I'm not saying this to preach at you but to help with your vocational discernment just seek simplicity, humbly praying and serving your parish as one who is little, and that would be closer to this type of vocation. 

[oremus1]

I have never heard of there being a requirement like this. Do you maybe mean being involved in the parish life? I am not a CV but I'd think a part of being a CV is living a quiet life of prayer, maybe even a hidden life, and not drawing attention to parish involvement or being ostentatious. Any parish involvement should be done for God and the Church alone not to bring attention to yourself to be noticed as a CV candidate. Imo ....

Its not a job but a vocation, and the best preparation for it is much prayer and seeking God's Will, not getting to know Bishops on friendly terms. A CV is a spouse of Christ and the best preparation imo is seeking to be like Him - humble, prayerful, submitted to God. Seeking attention and trying to be ostentatious at a parish is opposite to the virtues you'll need to focus on to actually live the life.

I'm not sure what you mean by being an important person, but I believe its best to seek to be simple and humble like St Francis who sought to be the lowest of the low... That is more like who a consecrated person is. Jesus said if we exalt ourselves we would be humbled and if we humble ourselves we would be exalted. Being any type of consecrated soul means being a servant to the Church, not seeking attention or being important in anyone's eyes. That can distract. Jesus said who wants to be first needs to be last and those are greatest in Heaven who are like little children. I'm not saying this to preach at you but to help with your vocational discernment just seek simplicity, humbly praying and serving your parish as one who is little, and that would be closer to this type of vocation.

No I already did that, I was very active in several parishes in the diocese in hidden ways. they said because it is a public vocation I need to be well known

they seemed to think that the vocation was kind of like the papal medal - a special recognition of a life lived in service of the church. because usually it is given to elderly ladies who have done loads for the church in their life and are very important people in the diocese.

so a humble prayerful quiet life doesn't cut it. they said someone like that would do better with private vows in a hidden life

[MarysLittleFlower]

Its not my place to decide who should be a CV, obviously a diocese would have the say and I have no authority in the matter... But this description of a CV doesn't match anything I've ever read about consecrated vocations including ones that emphasise a bridal approach to Christ. In history, people called to love God in a more exclusive way, as their only love (as I understand how a CV views Christ), havent been noticeable or exceptional in any visible earthly way. They were often weaker or simpler souls. No one knew or exalted them. Even especially Our Lady.

I know there are some CVs here on the forum including Sponsa Christi who is a young CV, not elderly as you describe. Maybe you could ask them for advice and they'd know more  maybe it depends on the diocese too. I know during St Catherine's time most Tertiaries were widows and she was a young lady and a virgin. God bless you. 

Edited September 1, 2015 by MarysLittleFlower

[oremus1]

Its not my place to decide who should be a CV, obviously a diocese would have the say and I have no authority in the matter... But this description of a CV doesn't match anything I've ever read about consecrated vocations including ones that emphasise a bridal approach to Christ. In history, people called to love God in a more exclusive way, as their only love (as I understand how a CV views Christ), havent been noticeable or exceptional in any visible earthly way. They were often weaker or simpler souls. No one knew or exalted them. Even especially Our Lady.

I know there are some CVs here on the forum including Sponsa Christi who is a young CV, not elderly as you describe. Maybe you could ask them for advice and they'd know more  maybe it depends on the diocese too. I know during St Catherine's time most Tertiaries were widows and she was a young lady and a virgin. God bless you.

Firstly there is a difference between being a virgin and being a consecrated virgin

Secondly the bishop can do whatever he likes

Thirdly the bishop thinks that people in the situation you describe ought to make private vows and have no need for any public recognition or ceremony (yes I know consecration is more than that, but see (2) above)

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

Hi there

As many of you know, I wish to become a CV, and the main criteria in my new diocese are 1) is well known for being an important person and 2) schmoozing with the bishops and important prelates at every opportunity 3) aint no point doing good works unless you are seen to do good works. If a tree falls in the forest, does it make a sound???

What is the best way to do this? I am thinking if I make myself very ostentatious in the cathedral parish, I can maybe hang with the bishop after sunday mass. do bishops generally hang out with parishioners after sunday mass? how can I be friends with the bishop and vicar general.i am a young lady.

Oremus1--In the past, you have wasted the time of Phatmassers who were trying to honestly answer your questions, and have repeatedly asked similar questions about becoming friends with priests, bishops, etc. Yet, in one of your posts you said that you had plenty of friends who were priests and bishops.

Note to other Phatmass users: In the past, I have taken time to answer Oremus' posts, then she ignored the answers given by myself and others by continually asking the same questions over and over.

Even as a non-Catholic, it is very obvious to me that the main criteria for becoming a CV in ANY Roman Catholic diocese is not by being an "important person" (whatever that means) or by "schmoozing" with bishops.

Before anyone on Phatmass takes their precious time to respond to Oremus' posts, please consider her history on Phatmass, and the fact that answering her questions has resulted in more silly questions.

To quote @dUSt on Oremus' multiple posts containing time wasting useless questions--"Please don't feed the troll."

Edited September 1, 2015 by IgnatiusofLoyola

[MarysLittleFlower]

Firstly there is a difference between being a virgin and being a consecrated virgin

Secondly the bishop can do whatever he likes

Thirdly the bishop thinks that people in the situation you describe ought to make private vows and have no need for any public recognition or ceremony (yes I know consecration is more than that, but see (2) above)

I'm not criticising the Bishop but I also don't know his views. Do you think maybe there was a misunderstanding? Or different Bishops may have different views. I don't think even the Bishops think they do whatever they like - they serve the Church's Tradition and maybe there are different interpretations of this tradition. However since there are CVs who are young, other dioceses may say something else. Or there's a misunderstanding. I don't know. Maybe speak to a CV about this..  I know there's a difference about a consecrated virgin - I brought up other vocations as historical examples.  

[oremus1]

I'm not criticising the Bishop but I also don't know his views. Do you think maybe there was a misunderstanding? Or different Bishops may have different views. I don't think even the Bishops think they do whatever they like - they serve the Church's Tradition and maybe there are different interpretations of this tradition. However since there are CVs who are young, other dioceses may say something else. Or there's a misunderstanding. I don't know. Maybe speak to a CV about this..  I know there's a difference about a consecrated virgin - I brought up other vocations as historical examples.

 

 

It is the case that different bishops have different views. For example, Bishop Jenky of Peoria once decided that CVs need to be veiled. It is up to the bishop to determine how he wants the CV to live.

There are no point in speaking to other CVs because it is up to the bishop alone to decide how the CV ought to live it out and whom he wishes to consecrate. Each bishop can have different views in different diocese. Some in France are habited often. Even if there is a misunderstanding, the bishop reigns over this vocation, since it is up tohim who to consecrate and why. .

anyway, I am sure there are a lot of people who want to be important in church regardless of vocation. like some Eucharistic ministers and lay readers for example.

I am just looking to hang with prelates, network with important people. you know. have lunch with the bishops in the bishops house, be invited to important things

Edited September 1, 2015 by oremus1

[MarysLittleFlower]

Just another point - the canonical requirement for being a CV is being a physical virgin. Maybe in some dioceses they tend to be older women. But that's an interpretation not strict canon law. If a Bishop wants this, he may look for experience - but this doesn't mean he's looking for "important people" or those who try to stand out. Thats my point. What words did the Bishop use? Maybe there was a misunderstanding.. Just because I don't think a Bishop would say "important people" in those words.  

He may have been getting at something else. Maybe he's looking for those who have lived a celibate life for some time for the Church. Other Bishops may be OK with young CVs since young CVs exist. But I don't think any Bishop would ask someone to be ostentatious even if he's asking for a more public ministry. There's a difference because a public ministry could be lived for God - but having the *intent* of ostentation, to be noticed, is something else. A public ministry still needs to be done humbly for God not to stand out or meet important people - EVEN IF many CVs do public ministry and know such people. 

That result was accidental for them, a product, not the intent of their efforts. So even in such a case I wouldnt do things just to be noticed and I doubt the Bishop wants this even if he's asking for a public ministry. That's what I meant about a misunderstanding  

[oremus1]

Just another point - the canonical requirement for being a CV is being a physical virgin. Maybe in some dioceses they tend to be older women. But that's an interpretation not strict canon law. If a Bishop wants this, he may look for experience - but this doesn't mean he's looking for "important people" or those who try to stand out. Thats my point. What words did the Bishop use? Maybe there was a misunderstanding.. Just because I don't think a Bishop would say "important people" in those words.

He may have been getting at something else. Maybe he's looking for those who have lived a celibate life for some time for the Church. Other Bishops may be OK with young CVs since young CVs exist. But I don't think any Bishop would ask someone to be ostentatious even if he's asking for a more public ministry. There's a difference because a public ministry could be lived for God - but having the *intent* of ostentation, to be noticed, is something else. A public ministry still needs to be done humbly for God not to stand out or meet important people - EVEN IF many CVs do public ministry and know such people.

That result was accidental for them, a product, not the intent of their efforts. So even in such a case I wouldnt do things just to be noticed and I doubt the Bishop wants this even if he's asking for a public ministry. That's what I meant about a misunderstanding 

He said that they like CVs to be seen and be well known and visible so everyone knows who they are and what they do because they bear a public witness in the diocese. It needs to be a well known well established person in the diocese.

They suggested Eucharistic minister in the cathedral would be OK.

There is no need to be a virgin. The consecration is more of a recognition of works you have done for the church. I went to one, it was like reciting a resume of church activities followed by a special blessing and thanksgiving for all their work. No real mention was made of espousal or virginity 

Edited September 1, 2015 by oremus1

[MarysLittleFlower]

Maybe a question for your diocese could be what types of ministry the Bishop sees as a good preparation to be a CV. That could be an intent that is still oriented to something spiritual and following the advice of your Bishop. But seeking to be noticed and to meet important people - that is not focused on the preparation, work, or virtues of a CV, and it could lead on a dangerous path of treating it like a career with networking - rather than a vocation even if public. I just think that could lead to disappointment or pain down the line and that's why I'm saying this, not to hurt you. Its the intent of seeking connections that worries me not the public aspect itself.  

Edited September 1, 2015 by MarysLittleFlower

[oremus1]

Maybe a question for your diocese could be what types of ministry the Bishop sees as a good preparation to be a CV. That could be an intent that is still oriented to something spiritual and following the advice of your Bishop. But seeking to be noticed and to meet important people - that is not focused on the preparation, work, or virtues of a CV, and it could lead on a dangerous path of treating it like a career with networking - rather than a vocation even if public. I just think that could lead to disappointment or pain down the line and that's why I'm saying this, not to hurt you. Its the intent of seeking connections that worries me not the public aspect itself.

I know well what it is and what it isn't from other dioceses, other countries and church dcuments. But all that doesn't matter. what matters is what a bishop sees it as. many bishops see religious as a cheap workforce . however, he is not directly overseeing them as he is for the CVs. it is natural that bishops with such views would come to see CVs as such. in certain developing nations, they are made to work and are paid very low wages same as nuns even thought they then have to pay rent. that is what the bishop has decided for CVs. the preparation the delegate advised for me was to be involved in as many VISIBLE,  (HIGH PROFILE) church things as possible and to work for the church. only very important people in the diocese can receive the consecration.

however I don't see what is wrong with my thread for anyone who wants to become very important in a diocese

[MarysLittleFlower]

He said that they like CVs to be seen and be well known and visible so everyone knows who they are and what they do because they bear a public witness in the diocese. It needs to be a well known well established person in the diocese.

They suggested Eucharistic minister in the cathedral would be OK.

There is no need to be a virgin. The consecration is more of a recognition of works you have done for the church. I went to one, it was like reciting a resume of church activities followed by a special blessing and thanksgiving for all their work. No real mention was made of espousal or virginity 

Im concerned with what you said about "no need to be a virgin". Canonically the most supportable position is literal virginity is a must.  Its decided by Canon law. I read about Rome confirming Cardinal Burke's statement on this supporting literal virginity. I don't know if your Bishop said this - my intent is not to criticise him, but I read that virginity is a requirement - relevant quotes have been posted in the forum before perhaps. Maybe some Bishops say something else but Rome does have the last word - and from what has been posted in the past, the case for literal virginity is the strongest. One can only consecrate something they have.

I'm also confused with what you described as the ceremony because the liturgy itself is structured like a wedding and is very spousal... That is the only liturgy I've ever heard of. Rome has the most authority on this, I'd go to Rome. A consecrated virgin is a woman who has her virginity consecrated to God and bears the title of a bride of Christ, and the ceremony is very very bridal - uses that imagery a lot - and since her actual virginity gets consecrated, it makes sense she needs to be a virgin. 

 

Edited September 1, 2015 by MarysLittleFlower

[MarysLittleFlower]

 

Anyway, I am sure there are a lot of people who want to be important in church regardless of vocation. like some Eucharistic ministers and lay readers for example.

I am just looking to hang with prelates, network with important people. you know. have lunch with the bishops in the bishops house, be invited to important things

Oremus, I know I am not your SD but as you came here with this question, I believe its best to answer directly. I believe this approach is not in the spirit of vocations or Church involvement either. If someone wanted to do anything in the Church - in order to "be important", I'd be worried for them. A person can have a public ministry like... I don't know, helping to organize parish missions. The intent is what God looks at. If this persons intent is to serve the Church, that is very different than an intent to be important. Bishop Sheen was on TV to help people. He had a very public ministry. But he did it to serve God. If someone wanted this tolook important and be invited places, I'd be worried too. Everything we do in the Church should be for God and others not for the self. If God calls someone to a more public ministry that is not for themselves. Or ANYministry. Especially for Consecrated souls, their vocation is not to feel or be special but to serve. 

[beatitude]

MLF, it's good that you're willing to answer questions and you're patient, but Oremus's post history makes it pretty clear that she or he is a troll. (I say 'she or he' because there was another user with a similar username who posted identical questions and shared identical stories in an identical writing style who introduced himself as an aspiring priest.) The person behind these accounts, whoever they are, made an anonymous thread in Catholic Q&A that asked how to become a CV when you're not the kind of person to write formal letters to bishops and more the type just to say 'hey'. Every time Oremus is called out on the trolling, s/he disappears for a while, and then resurfaces a few months later to ask the exact the same questions (which are obviously silly questions and not something any discerner is likely to ask, least of all one who claims to be personal friends with bishops - if Oremus were who she says she is then presumably one of her many bishop friends would be advising her on consecration). I don't understand the motives behind this kind of trolling but it's really worth the effort of responding to, and all it will achieve is to put the CV vocation in a ridiculous light.