Peace Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 You think that's what they really want? ok It seems rather apparent that what Ice_Nine described is their strategy. I think there are number of articles online that explain that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 oh yeah, i'm sure they have lots of strategies and plans..like sneaking into countries pretending to be poor defenseless refugees just so they can blow up the nation's capitol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 oh yeah, i'm sure they have lots of strategies and plans..like sneaking into countries pretending to be poor defenseless refugees just so they can blow up the nation's capitol... Yes. That is part of it, unfortunately. I think Pope Francis is already calling this war with ISIS "WWIII." I don't disagree with you, but like I said, how do we make it so that we aren't open to terrorists when we bring in refugees? This is the conundrum, and I don't think anyone should be like, "all you meanie conservatives HATE HATE HATE muslims and poor people who need help, blah blah blah." I find that to be intellectually dishonest. No one wants to throw "widows and orphans" to the wolves. (And just how many of those widows and orphans ARE wolves?) We just don't want what happened in Paris to happen in our own communities, to our neighbors and our families and friends. It's that simple. The barking between "sides" in America is ridiculous, and Hussein has already made our country very very divisive. I think that is more in line with what ISIS wants, a divided country they can easily destroy. Whites vs Blacks, poor vs rich, Blacks vs Cops, Homosexuals vs Religious, Black homosexuals vs Jews, (okay I made that one up, but you never know what's on the horizon...) All this division makes the USA's immunity weak, very very weak, probably the weakest its been since its creation... Also PC liberal croutons should just be thrown aside because that dung is just gonna get us killed. We need a common sense response to this crisis, not a feel good mushy emotional one that makes us extremely vulnerable to terrorist attacks. What's even more ridiculous is that all the political leaders who are calling for a wide open door to the refugees will never see them or have any contact with them. The refugees won't be entering their neighborhoods and their communities. Besides, the president has 24/7 protection and plenty of guns ready to fire at danger around him... we peons don't have that. (Well, thankfully, our republican governor has given us at least the right to bear arms on us at all times in my state...at least we have that protection...) I honestly think "Black Friday" is a really really bad idea this year. Easy targets...large groups in enclosed areas? How convenient for ISIS! ...and we all know the Pres doesn't shop at Wal Mart! Lol First you complain about the position of conservatives being dishonestly mischaracterized. Yet it seems to me that you mischaracterize the position of others. I do not think that many people are talking about having "wide open borders" or having a "feel good mushy emotional" response to terrorism. I think that reasonable people on all sides are trying to deal with the question of how to protect ourselves against terrorism while at the same time standing firm to our moral obligations towards refugees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 I know that those posting here have a genuine compassion towards people and they want to help. I want to help. It's complicated and we can only bring a solution to this with cooperation. What can we do about it but to pray for our political leaders who are in charge? I suggest the Rosary since it was so powerful against radical islamic terrorists at the Battle of Lepanto. I hope we are able to help those refugees who need it, our country has always had a history of being so generous... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 We have a history of being generous and yet still being the blame for all the attrocities in our world... I dont' think in this instant it will be any different. Some of the refugees aren't jihadists right now, but wait until they grow up.. *sigh* I guess we just need to be ready like Jesus said, we do not know the day nor the hour... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 I dont' think in this instant it will be any different. Some of the refugees aren't jihadists right now, but wait until they grow up.. Sure. But I don't see why that really matters. You or I could be a jihadist 2 years from now. I am sure that there are some former Christians among their ranks. Your sweet niece or nephew might grow up to be a murderer one day. You can't treat people differently because of what they might become in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amppax Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 https://t.co/aq59iXrz2g I saw this article earlier today, it's one of the more well reasoned things I've seen. Unfortunately, it seems far too many people are responding to all of this only emotionally, from both sides of the debate. I suppose it's understandable though, it's a scary situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 (edited) Sure. But I don't see why that really matters. You or I could be a jihadist 2 years from now. I am sure that there are some former Christians among their ranks. Your sweet niece or nephew might grow up to be a murderer one day. You can't treat people differently because of what they might become in the future. I think you meant to say "serial killers." We have no chance (well maybe .0000001%) of becoming jihadists. Serial killing is the sin of white Christians. Jihadi massacres, islamic folks. Edited November 19, 2015 by dominicansoul too many zeros lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 (edited) I think you meant to say "serial killers." We have no chance (well maybe .0000001%) of becoming jihadists. Serial killing is the sin of white Christians. Jihadi massacres, islamic folks. No. I meant to say jihadist. Perhaps the chance of that is very small - the .0000001% that you state. The number of refugees that become terrorists is also very small. Any given refugee may become a jihadist. He may become a canonized saint. Edited November 19, 2015 by Peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 I find some solace in Ampax's post. It seems that our system is pretty good at weeding out jihadists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice_nine Posted November 20, 2015 Author Share Posted November 20, 2015 I think Pope Francis is already calling this war with ISIS "WWIII." I don't disagree with you, but like I said, how do we make it so that we aren't open to terrorists when we bring in refugees? This is the conundrum, and I don't think anyone should be like, "all you meanie conservatives HATE HATE HATE muslims and poor people who need help, blah blah blah." I find that to be intellectually dishonest. No one wants to throw "widows and orphans" to the wolves. (And just how many of those widows and orphans ARE wolves?) We just don't want what happened in Paris to happen in our own communities, to our neighbors and our families and friends. It's that simple. The barking between "sides" in America is ridiculous, and Hussein has already made our country very very divisive. I think that is more in line with what ISIS wants, a divided country they can easily destroy. Whites vs Blacks, poor vs rich, Blacks vs Cops, Homosexuals vs Religious, Black homosexuals vs Jews, (okay I made that one up, but you never know what's on the horizon...) All this division makes the USA's immunity weak, very very weak, probably the weakest its been since its creation... Also PC liberal croutons should just be thrown aside because that dung is just gonna get us killed. We need a common sense response to this crisis, not a feel good mushy emotional one that makes us extremely vulnerable to terrorist attacks. What's even more ridiculous is that all the political leaders who are calling for a wide open door to the refugees will never see them or have any contact with them. The refugees won't be entering their neighborhoods and their communities. Besides, the president has 24/7 protection and plenty of guns ready to fire at danger around him... we peons don't have that. (Well, thankfully, our republican governor has given us at least the right to bear arms on us at all times in my state...at least we have that protection...) I honestly think "Black Friday" is a really really bad idea this year. Easy targets...large groups in enclosed areas? How convenient for ISIS! ...and we all know the Pres doesn't shop at Wal Mart! Lol I'm really not a fan of scapegoating. It's a weak tactic. If you want to pin this on Obama I think that's just a reaction made on your perspective. I have to listen to people blather on about how Obama is a great president who is just unable to achieve anything because republicans etc, which I don't agree with, but then some people, like you, on Phatmass makes me feel like I have to defend the guy because the hatred and blame is borderline irrational. If you want to live your life in fear, fine. I live with anxiety so I'm scared lots of the time but I try not to let that rule my decisions. Part of me wants to blast ISIS and hopes they are all mercilessly annihilated but part of me understands that's probably not the Christian response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 So... Just blame it all on "w" and blast conservatives for not being compassionate like you vented in your original post? Got it. I can blame all the presidents we've had in my lifetime for this mess. But most of all I blame radical Islamic terrorism and their beloved jihad. I have an anxiety disorder, I'm sure part of it has to do with some traumatic events in my life. I also work with international students so I wonder if one day at work some kid will blow himself up in my office. I used to think that was outlandish thinking, but not anymore... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) The frak up of the Middle East has been a bipartisan effort of both Bush and Obama as well as Congress from members of both sides, the latest frak up anyway dealing with Islamic State of Iraq and Syria or Islamic State of Iraq and Libya. Bush and Congress during his time toppled Saddam which destabilized the region, and Obama with Congress during his time left a vacuum to keep a political promise. The actions of both men helped give rise to ISIS/ISIL and its slaughter of innocence. The toppling of Qaddafi in Libya and the vacuum left there by Obama has also helped in the rise of ISIS/ISIL. Obama's effort to topple Assad in Syria has also helped in the rise of ISIS/ISIL. These are facts and not hate. Edited November 20, 2015 by KnightofChrist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 The frak up of the Middle East has been a bipartisan effort of both Bush and Obama as well as Congress from members of both sides, the latest frak up anyway dealing with Islamic State of Iraq and Syria or Islamic State of Iraq and Libya. Bush and Congress during his time toppled Saddam which destabilized the region, and Obama with Congress during his time left a vacuum to keep a political promise. The actions of both men helped give rise to ISIS/ISIL and its slaughter of innocence. The toppling of Qaddafi in Libya and the vacuum left there by Obama has also helped in the rise of ISIS/ISIL. Obama's effort to topple Assad in Syria has also helped in the rise of ISIS/ISIL. These are facts and not hate. Well. They are opinions and not hate if you want to be technical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 ISIS is in fact interested in bringing about the apocalypse, and they believe they can do this through provoking a war with the West.They consider refugees to be apostates. The bombing campaigns that have resulted in this campaign are not magically going to become the undoing of ISIS. The refugee designation is a legal status. It's difficult to obtain. It's much easier to come in as a tourist. It is true that rejecting refugees plays into the plan of ISIS, which is to create and expand the caliphate. They are a State, now. It might actually be better to just let people travel there. Those who cannot travel are encouraged to attack where they are, so let them go. ISIS controlled territory is pitifully run. It's a lousy place to live. ISIS didn't appear without the aid of poorly executed foreign policy. More of the same, which is what every neocon in the US and on phatmass is calling for, isn't suddenly going to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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