Well this is depressing

[Basilisa Marie]

Eh, it's not adultery, because while we might talk about priests being "married" to the Church it's not marriage like how two spouses get married. Metaphors only work when we're talking about the Church as Bride of Christ and priests acting in persona Christi. 

Most of my secular friends don't have a problem with him getting fired because it's easy for them to understand how making a vow of celibacy excludes having a significant other. I sympathize with him committing professional suicide in order to be with his boyfriend in public, but I also think it would have been a more powerful message to have a celibate priest who works for the CDF come out. It really seems to be more about not wanting to live in secret anymore and less about making a grand statement. 

 

[Maggyie]

This is an [ignorant] assumption, not fact.

really? I'm under the impression most gay people generally have the same morals as anyone else, which includes looking askance at cheating and breaking promises. So  being gay turns that bit of social conditioning about sexual fidelity off? Good to know. 

[franciscanheart]

really? I'm under the impression most gay people generally have the same morals as anyone else, which includes looking askance at cheating and breaking promises. So  being gay turns that bit of social conditioning about sexual fidelity off? Good to know. 

Mea culpa. Misunderstood the intent of your message. It came across to me as gay people having an issue with cheating in the "cheating is rampant among the gays" sense not the "they, too, frown upon infidelity" sense. Again, my apologies.

[NadaTeTurbe]

Eh, it's not adultery, because while we might talk about priests being "married" to the Church it's not marriage like how two spouses get married. Metaphors only work when we're talking about the Church as Bride of Christ and priests acting in persona Christi. 

Most of my secular friends don't have a problem with him getting fired because it's easy for them to understand how making a vow of celibacy excludes having a significant other. I sympathize with him committing professional suicide in order to be with his boyfriend in public, but I also think it would have been a more powerful message to have a celibate priest who works for the CDF come out. It really seems to be more about not wanting to live in secret anymore and less about making a grand statement. 

 

I would be a powerful message to have a celibate sister to come out, also. When I was looking for testimonies/books by homosexual that live according to the Church teaching, I only found things written by men. The only time I read about it was when I read the testimony of a sister who have seen that a young novice in her congregation was homosexual and suffered a lot in religious life, she helped her to left the convent et to live a chaste, happy life as a lay member of their congregation. 

[Maggyie]

Eh, it's not adultery, because while we might talk about priests being "married" to the Church it's not marriage like how two spouses get married. Metaphors only work when we're talking about the Church as Bride of Christ and priests acting in persona Christi. 

Most of my secular friends don't have a problem with him getting fired because it's easy for them to understand how making a vow of celibacy excludes having a significant other. I sympathize with him committing professional suicide in order to be with his boyfriend in public, but I also think it would have been a more powerful message to have a celibate priest who works for the CDF come out. It really seems to be more about not wanting to live in secret anymore and less about making a grand statement. 

 

errrr. I'm pretty sure according to our theology, Fr has violated the 6th commandment. Like if he does an examination of conscience that's what it falls under. 

[franciscanheart]

I would be a powerful message to have a celibate sister to come out, also. When I was looking for testimonies/books by homosexual that live according to the Church teaching, I only found things written by men. The only time I read about it was when I read the testimony of a sister who have seen that a young novice in her congregation was homosexual and suffered a lot in religious life, she helped her to left the convent et to live a chaste, happy life as a lay member of their congregation. 

If a sister were to come out, it is not unlikely she would be asked to leave.

[Oremus Pro Invicem]

Our modern day Martin Luther. 

[Lilllabettt]

the real scandal is not that he had a lover

the real scandal is not that his lover is a man

the real scandal is that he had a teaching position and a leadership role in the CDF - the body entrusted with defense of our faith - and he believes the Church's doctrine on gay sex can change.

this man has been subtly undermining our religion for years, claiming to be something he is not - a faithful Catholic.

if you are gay and a faithful Catholic you need to be louder in our Church and be explicit about your fidelity to Church teaching. I'm gay, I'm Catholic, I believe the teaching, and here's why. In a perfect world you would not need to explain that you are faithful. We don't live in that world.  Orthodox Catholics, unfaithful Catholics, secular people, the press, etc. all believe that it is next to impossible to be faithful Catholic and gay. The Church NEEDS you to be loud because right now it seems a faithful gay Catholic is basically a three tail unicorn.

[franciscanheart]

the real scandal is not that he had a lover

the real scandal is not that his lover is a man

the real scandal is that he had a teaching position and a leadership role in the CDF - the body entrusted with defense of our faith - and he believes the Church's doctrine on gay sex can change.

this man has been subtly undermining our religion for years, claiming to be something he is not - a faithful Catholic.

if you are gay and a faithful Catholic you need to be louder in our Church and be explicit about your fidelity to Church teaching. I'm gay, I'm Catholic, I believe the teaching, and here's why. In a perfect world you would not need to explain that you are faithful. We don't live in that world.  Orthodox Catholics, unfaithful Catholics, secular people, the press, etc. all believe that it is next to impossible to be faithful Catholic and gay. The Church NEEDS you to be loud because right now it seems a faithful gay Catholic is basically a three tail unicorn.

Why? So people like those here on phatmass can ask us why we need to tell them we're gay? So we can be told it's a private affair that should be kept between us and our spiritual directors and God?

So many conflicting messages.

[Nihil Obstat]

the real scandal is not that he had a lover

the real scandal is not that his lover is a man

the real scandal is that he had a teaching position and a leadership role in the CDF - the body entrusted with defense of our faith - and he believes the Church's doctrine on gay sex can change.

this man has been subtly undermining our religion for years, claiming to be something he is not - a faithful Catholic.

if you are gay and a faithful Catholic you need to be louder in our Church and be explicit about your fidelity to Church teaching. I'm gay, I'm Catholic, I believe the teaching, and here's why. In a perfect world you would not need to explain that you are faithful. We don't live in that world.  Orthodox Catholics, unfaithful Catholics, secular people, the press, etc. all believe that it is next to impossible to be faithful Catholic and gay. The Church NEEDS you to be loud because right now it seems a faithful gay Catholic is basically a three tail unicorn.

Well it is rather scandalous that a priest would flaunt his very serious sins in such a public manner.
I would agree that what you said about his position in the CDF is probably more scandalous, and certainly more detrimental to souls. But even if he was some country bumpkin priest in the middle of nowhere his sodomitic relationship is still scandalous.

Edited October 5, 2015 by Nihil Obstat

[Maggyie]

Mea culpa. Misunderstood the intent of your message. It came across to me as gay people having an issue with cheating in the "cheating is rampant among the gays" sense not the "they, too, frown upon infidelity" sense. Again, my apologies.

no worries. I was really responding to other posts that make the point that this was his way of expressing solidarity. In reality I think most gay people would rather not have a fallen away priest as a self appointed spokesman for gay rights in the church. 

[Basilisa Marie]

errrr. I'm pretty sure according to our theology, Fr has violated the 6th commandment. Like if he does an examination of conscience that's what it falls under. 

Okay but it's still not committing adultery. We also don't call gossip murder.   You're right, he's definitely violating the sixth commandment if we're trying to fit every sin under the ten commandments (like if you're using them as an examination of conscience), just like how gossip can fall under bearing false witness OR murder, depending on what kind of gossip it is (lying about someone vs totally destroying their good reputation). Technically adultery is cheating on your spouse, fornication is sex outside of marriage. 

You can totally write me off as being too picky if you want.  I've recently had a few discussions with some Catholic friends who don't think sex outside of marriage is sinful because Jesus talks about adultery and not fornication (I know, fornication has never been okay in the Christian tradition, my friends are weird). 

If anything all of this just shows that it's not like they screen people for fidelity to the Magisterium when they're putting people in positions at the CDF. Just like a lot of other offices in the Church, unfortunately.