truthfinder Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Sorry if I missed this elsewhere today, but a Quebec bishop went and said some silly things today. http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2015/10/06/synod-should-reflect-on-possibility-of-allowing-female-deacons-says-canadian-archbishop/ I really thought the Quebec episcopacy was getting better. TL;DR - Bishop says women should be ordained deacons, diaconate was never ordered towards the priesthood (I already feel the tremors in the earth), and that women should be given more institutional authority. Now I'm not sure how the Chanceries are run in other places, but in the number that I've dealt with, chanceries and parish committees are often 50%+ women. I'm not even sure there's an emoticon that adequately represents what I feel for this statement. (some sort of this combination). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vee Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bardegaulois Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Now if all this dissent is bubbling up to the top in this synod, why is it even being held in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthfinder Posted October 7, 2015 Author Share Posted October 7, 2015 In some ways, I've been trying to not pay attention to the synod, but when I saw this headline I was curious as to who exactly was suggesting it (suspecting one of the German contingency - I was so wrong). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritasluxmea Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 If one is not a transitional deacon why cant women take such a position? I think its an amesome idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 If one is not a transitional deacon why cant women take such a position? I think its an amesome idea! Because women cannot and never will be ordained. Period, end of story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Because women cannot and never will be ordained. Period, end of story. A permanent deacon is never ordained and sometimes he is even married. I feel like this is similar to having a female cardinal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 A permanent deacon is never ordained and sometimes he is even married. I feel like this is similar to having a female cardinal. The diaconate is an ordained clergymen. They are ordained just as much as priests are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 (edited) The diaconate is an ordained clergymen. They are ordained just as much as priests are. Are cardinals ordained as well? Could you say nuns are ordained too just in a different way? Edited October 7, 2015 by CrossCuT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthfinder Posted October 7, 2015 Author Share Posted October 7, 2015 (edited) Deacons, priests and bishops are the three major orders (that is ordained clerics). The canonist Ed Peters has been writing about the problems he sees within canon law about there being no differentiate between transitional and permanent deacons and the requirement for continence. But that's a rabbit hole: the point being a deacon is a deacon and they're all ordained. Cardinals are not ordained; it's an honorary position - them being made a cardinal in no way resembles the ordination ceremonies. There has been some language about nuns being ordained, but again, this is normally said by those who are not Catholic writing about them. Nuns are consecrated or professed (depending on the community, its vows, and constitutions). Ordination is a sacrament, and thus imparts an indelible mark upon the soul. Edited October 7, 2015 by truthfinder gif didn't want to gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Deacons, priests and bishops are the three major orders (that is ordained clerics). The canonist Ed Peters has been writing about the problems he sees within canon law about there being no differentiate between transitional and permanent deacons and the requirement for continence. But that's a rabbit hole: the point being a deacon is a deacon and they're all ordained. Cardinals are not ordained; it's an honorary position - them being made a cardinal in no way resembles the ordination ceremonies. There has been some language about nuns being ordained, but again, this is normally said by those who are not Catholic writing about them. Nuns are consecrated or professed (depending on the community, its vows, and constitutions). Ordination is a sacrament, and thus imparts an indelible mark upon the soul. Thank you for the explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bardegaulois Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Are cardinals ordained as well? Could you say nuns are ordained too just in a different way? Cardinals are elevated, usually from the ranks of the episcopate. Nuns profess vows. Deacons are, like bishops and priests, ordained according to the sacrament of Holy Orders, a sacrament which grants an ineffaceable character to the soul. The rite of ordination of deacons may be found here: http://www.diocesepvd.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Ordination-1-13.pdf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisa Marie Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 There were deaconesses in the early Church, there's no evidence they were ordained (whereas there IS evidence that men were ordained deacons). Back then deacons were almost exclusively doing service work, plus helping people get baptized (naked, in the dark, by full immersion and a full rub-down with sacred oils) during the Easter Vigil. A lot of widows joined the order of deaconesses. They'd be more like your St. Vincent de Paul or Knights of Columbus today. The whole point of deacons is to do that service work so that the Apostles could spend more time preaching the Gospel, because it was more important for them to be doing that, and they could get others to distribute food and whatnot. Today, permanent deacons can't actually marry again once their spouse dies, or if they're unmarried they can't get married. We COULD actually have female cardinals. They might even have full voting privileges during a conclave. But hey could only vote for a Catholic man (if he weren't already a bishop he'd be ordained deacon, priest, bishop when he accepted his office). As far as religious orders go, I once heard someone say that religious vows are a perfected state of the regular lay Christian's duty and life. That's why it's not a separate sacrament for religious vows (unlike ordination or marriage). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazeingstar Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 I like Simcha Fisher's take on the matter. It dosn't cost us anything to hear people out. http://www.ncregister.com/blog/simcha-fisher/shush-your-mother-is-trying-to-listen/ In the end it may give us a nugget of truth that they are going off of that we can change an adapt to (perhaps a lay community of women who are commissioned by the dioceses and are as well educated as deacons) or perhaps we can hear in the presenter something about them that will allow us to council them with greater understanding. (eg apologize for sins of the church, correct their mistaken beliefs, etc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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