Dom Marmion book question

[MarysLittleFlower]

Marigold, i think thats very true about how scruples work and the fact that this is a complicated area for me makes me more scrupulous about it. I am going to speak to my priest this week... I have to wait a couple days and anything that could at least bring some peace, I'd be really grateful for.  Thank you to everyone for taking the time to respond to me in any case, I know its not easy dealing with people like me who are anxious.  

[Sponsa-Christi]

I'm not trying to encourage scruples, but to try to give MLF some factual answers to her factual questions:

1. Theologically, literal virginity is not, and never has been, a requirement for religious life in general. Some individual communities might have listed virginity as a requirement, but even in those cases I suspect this might have been less about actual literal virginity and more about being always unmarried and/or not having lived an openly scandalous life. 

2. I believe it's entirely possible for a non-virgin to be called to a spousal relationship with Christ in actual fact, even if she can't become a consecrated virgin. I wrote about this a little bit on my blog here: http://sponsa-christi.blogspot.com/2015/03/who-can-be-called-bride-of-christ.html

3. Over the centuries, women religious have often borrowed rather heavily from the imagery and spirituality of consecrated virginity. So heavily, in fact, that in some spiritual writings it's hard to distinguish which group the author seems to be speaking to! However, spiritual writings generally aren't Church doctrine, and words meant for one group can still be helpful for another. For someone like Dom Marmion, I would say just take whatever is helpful or inspiring to you. If it speaks to your heart, don't worry too much about whether or in what sense it would technically apply to you.

[MarysLittleFlower]

Sponsa, thank you, that is helpful! well I've never been married or lived in scandal known to others.. If i discern with a community I'll let them know that I have 'a past' with impurity but that it wasn't public and I am living celibately.  If they say no i'll go to another. It helps to know that there's no rule about this for religious life in general!. I understand virginity can add something in the soul but I know there are Saints who were not virgins and God very clearly called them. One example I just read about is St Marie of the Incarnation, she was a widow and became a nun, her call was very obvious and she was also a mystic. As a child Jesus appeared to her and asked "will you be all Mine?". She made a vow of chastity when her husband passed away - she was only 19. She wasn't a penitent but that story encouraged me

Edited November 24, 2015 by MarysLittleFlower

[dominicansoul]

I guess it depends on the community, but my Mother Superior told us from the get go, "I don't want to hear y'alls confessions!"  lol.

Seriously, some don't care if you have had sex in your past!  It's who you are RIGHT NOW that they are more concerned about.

[vee]

I agree ds, its not necessary to tell a community one's past sins. 

Mary's little flower since you say you are in Canada and interested in cloistered life, possibly Carmel, why not contact this Carmel if you havent already.  Im linking to the section with a nice little video mainly cos I like the video   http://www.thecarmel.ca/comeandsee.aspx

[SNJM]

I just wrote a very long post and deleted it. MLF, I am going to really pray that your Spiritual Director gets you through this. Please be open to the beautiful graces you received at your conversion and read through these posts carefully. You have been given some excellent advice and your old life is gone; your new life in Christ is just beginning. It's going to be a long and heavy road if you don't accept the fact that Christ Himself has washed away every single thing you might have done. Those people or communities that are transfixed on the actual physical aspect of virginity are not understanding religious life, and are unhealthy. They also end up - purposefully or not - shaming women who weren't always on this road. Part of being a whole, integrated person is recognizing that you aren't & weren't perfect and yet, mistakes and challenges are part of you & brought you into the light of Christ. You will continue to make mistakes and possibly even some bad choices, even in a Community!  St. Benedict was very much into reminding his monks that "everyday we begin again." This is a minor issue when you look at the grand scheme of the possibility of Religious Life. Your past is your past and does not define you. I really wish there was better understanding of this issue & people (including Cardinals) would stop confusing the vocation of a CV to that of a nun or sister. In closing, to answer your question or someone else's, the communities I know personally who hold this as a requirement claim "it's too hard to adjust," if you have had physical sexual experiences. The irony is that two communities I can think of with this rule, had widows as foundresses! That makes me LAUGH! As they say no to viable, thriving, wonderful candidates (as the Franciscans did to Merton!!) they don't even realize that they wouldn't even accept their own foundress! That's why I'm praying with my whole heart that this topic passes by you & you are able to let it go. In the search for a Community, you are going to hear, see and read some pretty crazy stuff. Discern with the heart of the Father, the One who understands all and rejoices beautifully with each soul He captures! 

[MarysLittleFlower]

Thank you for the advice and prayers :) I definitely feel like I need my SD to help me. I wouldn't say its unhealthy or shaming to focus on virginity but I also hope there's a place for me. I don't think for me its too hard to adjust, I hope not, because I have been living celibately through Our Lady's intercession and I already committed myself to living that way forever, in convent or not. Hopefully convents would be ok with that because many years passed since my conversion and what I believe to be a grace through Our Lady to help me be chaste habitually. 

[chrysostom]

Here's some Aquinas.

If the human mind delight in the spiritual union with that to which it behooves it to be united, namely God, and refrains from delighting in union with other things against the requirements of the order established by God, this may be called a spiritual chastity, according to 2 Corinthians 11:2, “I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.” If, on the other hand, the mind be united to any other things whatsoever, against the prescription of the Divine order, it will be called spiritual fornication, according to Jeremias 3:1, “But thou hast prostituted thyself to many lovers.” Taking chastity in this sense, it is a general virtue, because every virtue withdraws the human mind from delighting in a union with unlawful things. Nevertheless, the essence of this chastity consists principally in charity and the other theological virtues, whereby the human mind is united to God. (Summa, II–II, q. 151, art. 2)

The essence of chastity consists principally in charity and the other theological virtues.  St. Benedict treats of it very simply and positively.  "Love chastity", he says.

The virtue of chastity is for anyone.  One might say (please correct me if I speak wrongly) that it is the living-out of virginity.  It is one of the three evangelical counsels.  Love it simply for what it is - a cleaving unto God.  May the joy of living it draw you with childlike trust into the spousal beckoning of religious life.  There is nothing to fear here.

Oh Jesus, King of Love, I trust in Thy merciful goodness.  O Jésus, Roi d’Amour, j’ai confiance en ta miséricordieuse bonté.

He is come for the littlest of us, the poor and the weak and the timid and the fearful and the sad and the guilt-ridden.  To those who want to give Him their all He will not refuse them.  And He will respond a thousandfold with grace upon grace.

My prayers for you as you seek advice, direction, and reassurance.

[MarysLittleFlower]

Thank you Chrysostom :) yes that is how I have felt all this time... The life of celibacy is loving God only. Somewhere along the line I became afraid if I'd be allowed to. I guess the beauty of virginity is that this is all the soul ever knew. But some souls have this desire to love God undividedly. I think I needed to hear these things: "To those who want to give Him their all He will not refuse them." And the prayer "Oh Jesus, King of Love, I trust in Thy merciful goodness". God bless you! :)

One Sunday the Gospel reading was about the poor widow and suddenly I thought how similar it is to my situation. Maybe what I have to give is less than other souls, but I want to give everything. What the poor widow gave was a lot to God because she held nothing back. I remember this really encouraged and healed me in a way but then later I forgot. 

[SNJM]

This is exactly the truth and what you most need to focus on! Just to clarify - I don't think your interest or attempts for clarification are "shaming," - I think the attitude and culture of SOME communities when they focus only on ONE piece of a person's past can be insulting and shaming. I have spoken directly to VD's on behalf of clients and regarding this, have been absolutely floored. But! This is the exception and not the norm which is one of the reasons I consider it so unhealthy!

[NadaTeTurbe]

10 hours ago, MarysLittleFlower said:

Sponsa, thank you, that is helpful! well I've never been married or lived in scandal known to others.. If i discern with a community I'll let them know that I have 'a past' with impurity but that it wasn't public and I am living celibately.  If they say no i'll go to another. It helps to know that there's no rule about this for religious life in general!. I understand virginity can add something in the soul but I know there are Saints who were not virgins and God very clearly called them. One example I just read about is St Marie of the Incarnation, she was a widow and became a nun, her call was very obvious and she was also a mystic. As a child Jesus appeared to her and asked "will you be all Mine?". She made a vow of chastity when her husband passed away - she was only 19. She wasn't a penitent but that story encouraged me

And don't forget Blessed Charles de Foucauld ! What a scandalous life he had before his conversion... 

And look at him at the end of this life. Only love in his eyes :