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I'm Not Gay Are You?


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People need someone to love.  Gender and or sexual orientation are secondary considerations to that need, though gender is a large factor in "who" you feel you can relate to in expressing and receiving love.  

We all can misuse and / or mistake our own and others love.  If it isn't mutually respectful, empathetic, and giving, I believe that's more wrong than "proper" gender.  

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I don't know, honestly. In my wild years, I had (many :( ) boyfriends and strange attraction for some girls but I don't think I had this because of real homosexuality - or bisexuality in my case - but more because I was a very confused girl, with a past of sexual abuse, who did not know to have a relationship with someone who was not romantic or sexual, and because I was incapable of seeing me like a simple human being, I saw myself like a sexual body and that's all. I've had therapy, and now that I've learned to have sane relationship with people - men and women - I don't feel this ambiguity anymore. 

It's the first time I'm telling this to someone, outside of my therapist and a priest at confession. 

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KnightofChrist

Love is an act of the will. Choosing to love someone is more powerful and more meaningful than being slaves of our passions or genetics. We choose who we love because love is a gift we give not some program we follow like a computer. 

Edited by KnightofChrist
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What is love? Is merely having sex with someone to "love" them? Most people would probably say no, even though people refer to it as "making love." So when does "love" become "love"? Marriage does not depend on love, though "love" is generally associated with marriage. And lots of people don't even love themselves, even if they're married to another person. Even in a family context, "love" is relative...once a child becomes an adult, a parent and child or siblings are two adults, without the same obligations of "love" as when they were children. And what becomes of love between two people who fall out of love? To "fall out of love" seems to identify love as a state, a sort of rapture, from which one can become disillusioned or unenchanted with wider perspective or changing needs/circumstances/etc. Is love having someone who fulfill your needs and give you a role in life? Does the plant "love" the sun because it gives it what it needs to grow?

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MarysLittleFlower
1 hour ago, KnightofChrist said:

Love is an act of the will. Choosing to love someone is more powerful and more meaningful than being slaves of our passions or genetics. We choose who we love because love is a gift we give not some program we follow like a computer. 

I agree 

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I've had lots of gay clients, trans, and even a couple of intersex. I think sexuality is a bell curve. Some people are Marlboro men at one end and flaming at the other. I think that since most of us are towards the top of the bell curve, something like abuse or weird parenting can push us to the wrong side. Unfortunately, the way the culture is now, lots of people destined to be on the right side are getting pushed the wrong way. 

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IgnatiusofLoyola
2 hours ago, KnightofChrist said:

Love is an act of the will. Choosing to love someone is more powerful and more meaningful than being slaves of our passions or genetics. We choose who we love because love is a gift we give not some program we follow like a computer. 

Sorry K of C (and MLF), but it's just not that black and white. I know you want it to be, but it's just not. I'd say that I'll see what you think about this 30-40 years from now, but I won't be around on earth anymore. We can talk about it in heaven.

My ex-husband came out as gay at 40. I know he really didn't want to be gay. But, he also realized he needed to act on his homosexual feelings, and neither of us could live in a marriage that didn't at least TRY to be monogamous. So we came to the extremely tough decision to divorce.

My ex was VERY depressed when he finally told me. In fact, we still lived together until he moved out three months later because I was afraid he was going to commit suicide.

I can't tell you when my ex knew, and why his feelings were so strong that he needed to act on it, because for my sanity we had to break contact with each other, so there are lots of questions I can't answer. He has a nephew and two uncles who are also gay. I do know that our last year of marriage was very unhappy as my ex wrestled with all the issues. I also KNOW that if there was ANY way my ex could have chosen not to act on his feelings and stay married, he would have. My ex had a VERY strong will and was not someone who had no self-control over his impulses. To my knowledge he never cheated in our marriage. I don't completely understand, but I've learned that life is complicated and people are complicated--more complicated than you know yet.

I was taken COMPLETELY by surprise--total blindside.

The LAST thing I wanted in my life was to get a divorce. But, I realized that if I truly meant what I said that I loved my ex with my whole heart, it was not a loving thing to "trap" him into staying in a marriage that was making him desperately unhappy. The most loving thing I could do was to set him free with a minimum of guilt. That's what REAL love is to me.

I know this almost certainly doesn't make rational sense to you. But human beings at their core do not fit some set pattern. They are FAR more complex.

I don't pretend to understand how sexuality works. All I know is that for at least some people it isn't an impulse that they can control by a strong will. At least in some cases, it is incredibly powerful--for some people, as powerful as the will to live.

My biggest hope for heaven is that God will finally understand the questions I have about so many things related to sexuality (and thousands of other things). The older I get, the more I realize that human beings are beyond my understanding--only God understands. (BTW--I have a VERY high IQ (top 1%)--it's not for lack of intelligence (or trying) that I don't understand.)

For the record, I am 100% straight. I know that some people say that everyone is at least a little bit homosexual, but speaking only for myself, that theory is hooey. That is not how "I" am made.

Oh yes. I was married in the Catholic church, and to the best of my knowledge, my marriage has never been annulled. So, in the eyes of the Catholic church I am still married. I'm not going to discuss my reasons here for not pursuing an annulment.

But, even after all these years ALL I want for my ex is that he be happy and successful. I still love my husband and don't feel angry at him. Sad things happen in life, and my marriage was one of them. 

Note: I do not plan to discuss this further, because I know what I know (and what I don't know) and I'm not even going to try to change your mind. But, I will say that at your ages (you and MLF) I was just as "black and white" in my beliefs as you are. Life has taught me that things are more complex than that, and LOVE has to override pretty much all the "rules" someone has written down. Jesus broke the rules of kosher to show he loved prostitutes by sharing a meal with them, and that got him in huge trouble with the Pharisees for breaking an incredibly important rule in that culture. Note: I am not saying I follow "situational ethics"--only that, unless you are standing in someone's shoes, you (or any human) is not qualified to make judgements. ALL humans lack the understanding to do that. Only God can pass judgement. Our job is to love God and to love others as ourselves the best we can, and to live in hope that some day we will understand. As I think we will hear a lot in the next year, part of loving others is to show mercy. I know that I'm going to need a LOT of mercy from God, so I'd better show a lot of it to imperfect humans while I'm still on this earth, even if it is beyond my imperfect understanding.

Sorry that some of the sentences above don't make sense. I tried to edit them, but I ran out of time.

dUSt--Is there ANY way we could have more time to edit? Even 10 minutes would help.

Edited by IgnatiusofLoyola
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10 minutes ago, IgnatiusofLoyola said:

Sorry K of C (and MLF), but it's just not that black and white. I know you want it to be, but it's just not. I'd say that I'll see what you think about this 30-40 years from now, but I won't be around on earth anymore. We can talk about it in heaven.

My ex-husband came out as gay at 40. I know he really didn't want to be gay. But, he also realized he needed to act on his homosexual feelings, and neither of us could live in a marriage that didn't at least TRY to be monogamous. So we came to the extremely tough decision to divorce.

My ex was VERY depressed when he finally told me. In fact, we still lived together until he moved out three months later because I was afraid he was going to commit suicide.

I can't tell you when my ex knew, and why his feelings were so strong that he needed to act on it, because for my sanity we had to break contact with each other, so there are lots of questions I can't answer. He has a nephew and two uncles who are also gay. I do know that our last year of marriage was very unhappy as my ex wrestled with all the issues. I also KNOW that if there was ANY way my ex could have chosen not to act on his feelings and stay married, he would have. My ex had a VERY strong will and was not someone who had no self-control over his impulses. To my knowledge he never cheated in our marriage. I don't completely understand, but I've learned that life is complicated and people are complicated--more complicated than you know yet.

I was taken COMPLETELY by surprise--total blindside.

The LAST thing I wanted in my life was to get a divorce. But, I realized that if I truly meant what I said that I loved my ex with my whole heart, it was not a loving thing to "trap" him into staying in a marriage that was making him desperately unhappy. The most loving thing I could do was to set him free with a minimum of guilt. That's what REAL love is to me.

I know this almost certainly doesn't make rational sense to you. But human beings at their core do not fit some set pattern. They are FAR more complex.

I don't pretend to understand how sexuality works. All I know is that for at least some people it isn't an impulse that they can control by a strong will. At least in some cases, it is incredibly powerful--for some people, as powerful as the will to live.

My biggest hope for heaven is that God will finally understand the questions I have about so many things related to sexuality (and thousands of other things). The older I get, the more I realize that human beings are beyond my understanding--only God understands. (BTW--I have a VERY high IQ (top 1%)--it's not for lack of intelligence (or trying) that I don't understand.)

For the record, I am 100% straight. I know that some people say that everyone is at least a little bit homosexual, but speaking only for myself, that theory is hooey. That is not how "I" am made.

Oh yes. I was married in the Catholic church, and to the best of my knowledge, my marriage has never been annulled. So, in the eyes of the Catholic church I am still married. I'm not going to discuss my reasons here for not pursuing an annulment.

But, even after all these years ALL I want for my ex is that he be happy and successful. I still love my husband and don't feel angry at him. Sad things happen in life, and my marriage was one of them. 

Note: I do not plan to discuss this further, because I know what I know (and what I don't know) and I'm not even going to try to change your mind. But, I will say that at your ages (you and MLF) I was just as "black and white" in my beliefs as you are. Life has taught me that things are more complex than that, and LOVE has to override pretty much all the "rules" someone has written down. Jesus broke the rules of kosher to show he loved prostitutes by sharing a meal with them, and that got him in huge trouble with the Pharisees for breaking an incredibly important rule in that culture. Note: I am not saying I follow "situational ethics"--only that, unless you are standing in someone's shoes, you (or any human) is not qualified to make judgements. ALL humans lack the understanding to do that. Only God can pass judgement. Our job is to love God and to love others as ourselves the best we can, and to live in hope that some day we will understand. As I think we will hear a lot in the next year, part of loving others is to show mercy. I know that I'm going to need a LOT of mercy from God, so I'd better show a lot of it to imperfect humans while I'm still on this earth, even if it is beyond my imperfect understanding.

Thank you for sharing what you did, Iggy. :) 

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KnightofChrist
1 hour ago, IgnatiusofLoyola said:

Sorry K of C (and MLF), but it's just not that black and white. I know you want it to be, but it's just not. I'd say that I'll see what you think about this 30-40 years from now, but I won't be around on earth anymore. We can talk about it in heaven.

The simplest thought, like the concept of the number one, has an elaborate logical underpinning. - Carl Sagan

I didn't say it was black and white nor did I say it was easy. A simple thought can also be highly complex and difficult but that doesn't mean it isn't true. We choose who we love and we can control our passions or choose to act upon them. That's a simple truth even though it is highly complex. I also know this from personal experience. But I wish to avoid discussing our personal lives. Because your someone I care about and your feelings matter to me. Since we aren't going to agree it is likely that if I reply in disagreement to something so personal I would risk hurting your feelings and I do not wish to do that. God Bless.

 

 

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Not The Philosopher

I was going to make a joke post, but so far this thread has been reasonable.

To answer the OP, from a pretty young age I recognized that I had some weird affections with regard to my male peers, but it wasn't until I was an adolescent that I realized I was Same-sex-attracted gay an adopted martian. I told one of my friends first. Another one of my friends also confided with me that he was struggling with his sexual identity potential martian descent, but nowadays he's rather straight. I'm still not. Oh well. Maybe there were certain environmental factors that could have been tweaked to make me more normal, but heck if I know.

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Just now, Not The Philosopher said:

I was going to make a joke post, but so far this thread has been reasonable.

To answer the OP, from a pretty young age I recognized that I had some weird affections with regard to my male peers, but it wasn't until I was an adolescent that I realized I was Same-sex-attracted gay an adopted martian. I told one of my friends first. Another one of my friends also confided with me that he was struggling with his sexual identity potential martian descent, but nowadays he's rather straight. I'm still not. Oh well. Maybe there were certain environmental factors that could have been tweaked to make me more normal, but heck if I know.

If you thought that some sort of treatment would make you more normal, to use your own words, would you take it?

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Not The Philosopher
Just now, Nihil Obstat said:

If you thought that some sort of treatment would make you more normal, to use your own words, would you take it?

Possibly; I'd need more info than "some sort of treatment."  It's not something I feel attached to to the point where I think I wouldn't be me without it, but I also don't feel the kind of angst about it that would make me agree to treatment that would be seriously invasive/dangerous/expensive.

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29 minutes ago, Not The Philosopher said:

Possibly; I'd need more info than "some sort of treatment."  It's not something I feel attached to to the point where I think I wouldn't be me without it, but I also don't feel the kind of angst about it that would make me agree to treatment that would be seriously invasive/dangerous/expensive.

Thanks. I was just curious.

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MarysLittleFlower

I think what I meant in giving props to Knight's post is that ultimately love is not a feeling but a choice. Just wanted to explain that :) it doesn't mean its not painful to try to give up certain feelings. It can be very difficult. My understanding is that love is wanting the persons greatest good, which we know as helping them come closer to God and to salvation. 

Edited by MarysLittleFlower
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