DominicanHeart Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 6 hours ago, Gabriela said: I won't say where I visited, but it was truly disappointing. When I got home I called my SD, who is a Carmelite formator, and she said that's pretty normal. Because St. Teresa wanted the sisters to have as much time as possible for contemplation and meditation, she really stripped down the liturgy so that it won't eat up too much time in the day. Chant is rare, and when it's there, it tends to be a single tone and pretty quick. Probably the Jesus + Mary Carmels are different, but from what my SD says, Carmelite liturgy is usually very... erm... sparse. Yes, but if you ask a Mediator of Meh, get ready to be harassed and teased and otherwise abused for a month before they finally concede. Blessed are the persecuted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiquitunga Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 On 2/12/2016, 9:13:35, MarysLittleFlower said: I'm thinking the liturgy must be very beautiful if its one of the Carmels with the FSSP was that the Carmel you were in or did it have the Novus Ordo? The Carmel in Buffalo, NY http://www.carmelitenunsstjoseph.org/Buffalo.htm and its foundations (Alexandria, Brooklyn, Hague, ND) take special care with their liturgies as well, Iron Mountain, MI too, and seems so with Traverse City, https://carmeloftraversecity.org/liturgy-parent/foretaste-of-heaven-sacred-liturgy/ But yeah, as they describe there above, Carmelite liturgy is overall more simple - especially on non Sundays/Feasts. Butpersonally I find the monotone chant very beautiful and love how it is not complicated, requiring a lot of thought to get it right, etc. and then to reserve Gregorian chant for Sundays and Feast days, and practice for that, seems perfect to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarysLittleFlower Posted February 15, 2016 Author Share Posted February 15, 2016 (edited) Do you know if its typical for Carmels to have the simple chant during the week and Gregorian on feasts too? I actually don't mind the simple one either as to me it sounds very "monastic" and I think in Latin too it must be very nice. Maybe it depends on how carefully its done..? Edited February 15, 2016 by MarysLittleFlower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiquitunga Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Yes, it's typical as far as the Carmels (Discalced) I visited/know of through others, etc. It's specifically written in the Constitutions. By the way, you probably saw this thread from a couple years ago, but just in case http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/133019-discalced-carmelite-nuns-38-gregorian-chant-questions/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NadaTeTurbe Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Does not-discalced carmelite nuns still exist ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarysLittleFlower Posted February 15, 2016 Author Share Posted February 15, 2016 2 hours ago, Chiquitunga said: Yes, it's typical as far as the Carmels (Discalced) I visited/know of through others, etc. It's specifically written in the Constitutions. By the way, you probably saw this thread from a couple years ago, but just in case http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/133019-discalced-carmelite-nuns-38-gregorian-chant-questions/ Oh nice! Thank you :) it must really feel like a feast to them with the Gregorian chant ;) 1 hour ago, NadaTeTurbe said: Does not-discalced carmelite nuns still exist ? I think so? I think there are two different Constitutions (if i got the name right) from different years in the 90s and one is stricter/more traditional. I don't know if they are both discalced or not. I think discalced are those that came from St Teresa's reform. Other posters would know more I'm sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NadaTeTurbe Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Yes, they are two constitutions, 90 and 91 (the main difference is not the tradition, it's that one depends of the brothers, while the other of the Pope), but both constitutions are Discalced Carmelite. I'm sure one of the carmel in my region in Spain wasn't discalced until the 80's, where they became discalced (lack of vocations = discalced carmelites came). And when it comes to the brothers of carmel, there's two carmelite monastery for men, in France, who are not discalced. Thats why I wonder... I wrote to the carmel next to my city, asking for prayers. The prioress answered me, asking me if I wanted to come in the Carmel, and that a friend of the sisters could drive me from the station to the Carmel ! I'm really excited about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarysLittleFlower Posted February 15, 2016 Author Share Posted February 15, 2016 (edited) That's so cool! I hope you get to visit! im hoping to visit a Carmel too. I didn't know that about depending on brothers or the Pope. I did hear that one of them (I forget if 90 or 91) is stricter and the other more modernised I guess. I haven't generally heard about 'calced' Carmelites though... I guess they're out there but for sure most seem to be discalced... Maybe someone knows Edited February 15, 2016 by MarysLittleFlower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthfinder Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 From what I know, there's about a handful of Calced Carmelite convents in the U.S. They have often picked up some of Teresa's reforms over the centuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AveMariaPurissima Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Are calced Carmelites the same thing as Carmelites of the Ancient Observance? There's a monastery of Carmelite Nuns of the Ancient Observance in Wahpeton, ND. http://carmelofmary.org/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graciela Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 (edited) The Carmelites of the Ancient Observance are the Order of Carmelites (O.Carm) that St. Teresa of Avila originally entered. Her reform became the Order of Discalced Carmelites (OCD), though it was a long and fraught process (St. John of the Cross being imprisoned by the OCarm friars and much intrigue. St. Teresa of Avila's Letters tell the story fascinatingly. OCarm cloistered nuns in the U.S. are in Allentown PA, Hudson WI, Christoval TX and in Wahpeton ND. The Order's website lists all the world wide monasteries of the OCarm nuns in their Directory. Here is their website: http://ocarm.org/en/ Edited February 17, 2016 by Graciela typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NadaTeTurbe Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Thank you ! What are the main difference between OCD and O.Carm ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vee Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 On 2/15/2016, 6:01:57, NadaTeTurbe said: I wrote to the carmel next to my city, asking for prayers. The prioress answered me, asking me if I wanted to come in the Carmel, and that a friend of the sisters could drive me from the station to the Carmel ! I'm really excited about it Im excited for you!!! When do you visit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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