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polskieserce

Why is it wrong to sign a prenup before marriage?

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IgnatiusofLoyola
20 hours ago, little2add said:

if you need a prenup, your doing it wrong 

I think that judgement is a little hasty, particularly, as mentioned in earlier posts, in cases where one or both of the spouses have children from a previous marriage. Also, for people with a lot more money than any Phatmassers I know, a prenup may be necessary to protect assets.

For example, I heard that Bill Gates (founder of Microsoft) did not want a prenup when he got married. However, in his case, he had billions of dollars of assets almost totally in Microsoft stock, as the majority owner of Microsoft. If Bill Gates had gotten divorced, possible changes in the ownership of company stock (which affects things like membership on the Board of Directors) could have caused doubts in the minds of shareholders and negatively affected the value of Microsoft stock. So Microsoft counsel told Bill Gates he needed a prenup to protect any harm to Microsoft (and its employees and shareholders) should he and his wife divorce. He grudgingly signed a prenup. Note: Bill and Melinda Gates are still married.

I am not an expert in contract law, so I am going to give members of a couple the benefit of the doubt in terms of having a prenup, unless I have seen the prenup and KNOW it contains clauses that contradict Catholic teachings on marriage.

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polskieserce
5 hours ago, CatherineM said:

I've only heard of one prenup that mentioned abortion. It was a guy who didn't want kids and wanted her to agree to have one if she got pregnant. Law school classmate had them as a client. He refused to draft it and lost the guy's business. I'd definitely have done the same. 

I can understand why you wouldn't do a prenup that mandates abortion if the woman gets pregnant.  But what if the prenup was against abortion (ie, major financial penalties for having an abortion)?

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Nihil Obstat
23 minutes ago, polskieserce said:

I can understand why you wouldn't do a prenup that mandates abortion if the woman gets pregnant.  But what if the prenup was against abortion (ie, major financial penalties for having an abortion)?

Since a pre-nuptial contract is not inherently evil and does not in and of itself invalidate a putative marriage, as we established above, a contract with purely moral terms would not be objectionable.

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little2add

Placing conditions (prenup) on  a unconditional Union may or may not doom the partnership from the start.  

 If you can't  promise each other  loyalty and devotion in sickness and health,  richer or poorer, togetherness  until death do you part, you  probably shouldn't get married in church  or anywhere else for that matter,  as far as I'm concerned 

 Seems to me a prenup is a plan for failure, 

 

 

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tinytherese

It strikes me as a sign that you don't trust your future spouse, in which case you shouldn't marry them.

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CatherineM
8 hours ago, Winchester said:

When else would you sign it?

I signed one after the wedding. I was trying to prove to his family I wasn't after his money. The fact that I made more money than him didn't impress them. 

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polskieserce
On 6/21/2016 at 2:06 AM, CatherineM said:

I signed one after the wedding. I was trying to prove to his family I wasn't after his money. The fact that I made more money than him didn't impress them. 

In some way, doesn't that situation apply to every marriage?  With the divorce rate as high as it is, I think a lot of people will be worried about getting divorced.  Even if one spouse isn't going into it with the mindset of trying to get the other spouse's money, a considerable amount of money can be lot on attorney fees if the two sides can't agree on a settlement.   If you got a prenup, then why is it wrong for other people to do it?

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Nihil Obstat
4 minutes ago, polskieserce said:

In some way, doesn't that situation apply to every marriage?  With the divorce rate as high as it is, I think a lot of people will be worried about getting divorced.  Even if one spouse isn't going into it with the mindset of trying to get the other spouse's money, a considerable amount of money can be lot on attorney fees if the two sides can't agree on a settlement.   If you got a prenup, then why is it wrong for other people to do it?

As we established earlier, it is not wrong in a necessary sense. It may well be wrong, but for further reasons. Specifically in intent and circumstance, as well as the exact terms of the agreement.   

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polskieserce
8 minutes ago, Nihil Obstat said:

As we established earlier, it is not wrong in a necessary sense. It may well be wrong, but for further reasons. Specifically in intent and circumstance, as well as the exact terms of the agreement.   

Yes, that was discussed earlier.  But I am specifically talking about THIS particular situation with the intent of protecting assets in a divorce.  She said she hated the idea of people getting prenups for that reason but she still signed one herself.

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CatherineM

I signed one after the wedding. That means that it had no affect on the marriage covenant. I signed it in part to try to calm his family down about our wedding. At the time, his mother was trying to get me deported as a terrorist. His sister had made us homeless. His other sister lied to our pastor that my husband was off his medicine and beating me. 

I had to be investigated by the rcmp, and csis and was two weeks from being deported when we got the investigation quashed. Then she reported me to the fbi as an escaped embezzler. We went through six months of marriage counselling ordered by our pastor until he could accept he'd been lied to. My husband dealt with being told every day that I only married him for his money, or for entry to Canada, or for free health care. 

We were able to find a place to live four days before being homeless. We've been happily married ten years now. His family has never apologized, but his mother no longer calls me "it."  Each marriage is different. I drafted many pre-nups in my career. Many more than I refused to draft. Unfortunately, for most people, marriage is a financial business arrangement more than a sacrament. 

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little2add

Wedding Vows

"I, ___, take you, ___, for my lawful wife/husband, to have and to hold from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and health, until death do us part." 

"I, ___, take you, ___, to be my husband/wife. I promise to be true to you in good times and in bad, in sickness and in health. I will love and honor you all the days of my life."

 

isn't a prenup a contradiction of the terms of the marriage agreement?

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White Knight
On 6/7/2016 at 1:07 PM, Maggyie said:

Or if it is the kind of prenup that penalizes having children (I have heard of them where if the wife gets pregnant she forfeits a percentage)

Definitely grounds for nullity. Absolutely, Open Shut  Case.

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Nihil Obstat
11 minutes ago, White Knight said:

Definitely grounds for nullity. Absolutely, Open Shut  Case.

Very strong evidence in favour of nullity. Not grounds in itself. Based on my understanding.

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