Brexit

[Amppax]

So that just happened. Thoughts? 

@Ash Wednesday @Benedictus if I'm remembering correctly, y'all both live in the UK, what are your thoughts? 

@PhuturePriest because you wish you were, what are yours? 

 

[NadaTeTurbe]

I'm a french, I'm very pro-European Union, but I am also against the presence of the UK in the EU (they should never have been here in the first place). Now it's time to built a social Europe, with France and Germany at its center, like De Gaulle wanted. I also hope it means that the dozens of british people who live in my village since 10 years and don't speak 1 word of french because they don't want to learn will have to leave our village. 

The only thing that I fear, is for a family friend who live at the border of Ireland and Northern Ireland. With the border back, life will be so hard. 

@Beatitude is also from the UK. 

[CatherineM]

22 minutes ago, NadaTeTurbe said:

I'm a french, I'm very pro-European Union, but I am also against the presence of the UK in the EU (they should never have been here in the first place). Now it's time to built a social Europe, with France and Germany at its center, like De Gaulle wanted. I also hope it means that the dozens of british people who live in my village since 10 years and don't speak 1 word of french because they don't want to learn will have to leave our village. 

The only thing that I fear, is for a family friend who live at the border of Ireland and Northern Ireland. With the border back, life will be so hard. 

@Beatitude is also from the UK. 

Why were you against them being in the EU?  We've had lots on the British side here in the news but not the side of the rest of the EU. 

[Amppax]

30 minutes ago, NadaTeTurbe said:

@Beatitude is also from the UK. 

Completely forgot. My error. @beatitude any thoughts? 

[Ash Wednesday]

My husband and I are very, very concerned.  The pound just plummeted and this could potentially tank the economy -- at the moment we're not going to panic about losing our jobs but it really is not good. There is the question of what interest rates will do and how this will affect homeowners like us. If things get really bad, we may have to start our lives over again in Sweden (husband's nationality) -- bagging groceries for a living at 40+ years old in Sweden was never my plan but I guess we will see. It wouldn't have been a big deal a year or so ago, but given that my U.S. agent dumped me this year, my freelance illustration has been cut in half.

At the very least, this could be the end of the UK as people know it, as Scotland will probably want to hold another referendum to leave the UK as they chose to remain under the assumption that the UK would remain in the EU. 

At the moment I'm mulling a dip into savings to spring for a US/UK citizenship.

Sorry, but while I hope I'm not just worrying excessively, I think this could potentially be awful. On a personal level, my life has been a nightmare I want to wake up from because of my health alone. This does not help matters any.

[NadaTeTurbe]

2 hours ago, CatherineM said:

Why were you against them being in the EU?  We've had lots on the British side here in the news but not the side of the rest of the EU. 

Because De Gaulle, a man that I admire, was against it. More seriously, when it comes to foreign policy, the UK always does like the US (Irak, for exemple). The british (politicians, not normal british) have done everything to destroy Europe as a social Europe, a politic Europe, to make it a financial Europe. They came in the EU but then blackmailed (not sure of the word) us to have a special status. Also, I think there's too much countries in the EU, but it's another question. Also, if the UK leaves the EU (it's not done, it will be a long process), we will not have to keep migrants in Calais, we will be able to let them go in the UK (but again, when things are more clear). For me, the Brithsh should have the same status that Norway or Switzerland. 
Around me, people are sad, worried, and some of them are happy, because in France, some people want to leave the EU, too. 

Ash Wesdnesday, do you think that Ireland reunification is possibe because of this ? 

[Ash Wednesday]

1 hour ago, NadaTeTurbe said:

Ash Wesdnesday, do you think that Ireland reunification is possibe because of this ? 

I just asked a Northern Irish about that just a bit ago -- and they've told me it's probably wayyyy too complicated and explosive at this point to consider right now. So I've amended my previous statement about this. But we shouldn't be surprised if Scotland will want to reconsider a referendum on independence again.

I'm probably more calm at this point after discussing this with my husband's family this morning. At this point it's better to just cross each bridge as we reach them rather than flip out and panic.

 

 

At least the Pittsburgh Penguins have still won the Stanley Cup.

[beatitude]

3 hours ago, Amppax said:

Completely forgot. My error. @beatitude any thoughts? 

I am shocked, and angry, but like Ash Wednesday I am containing my fears and hoping for the best. Some of my fears are difficult to contain, however. The pound has already fallen, it's had a knock-on effect on some other currencies, and leaving the EU will have a further impact on the economy - there's a reason why pretty much every economist in the UK was campaigning to remain. I am also fearful for what this means for people in jobs like mine (long hours, shift work) as the Working Time Directive is enshrined by the EU. Yesterday a nurse made a mistake with the rota and required a colleague to work from 9:00 to 23:00 and then be back in at 07:00 the following day. Because the UK has to abide by the Working Time Directive, that is illegal - you can't expect someone to leave their job after a fourteen-hour shift and then be back eight hours later - but now this could very easily become legal. Last year the Prime Minister tried to have Britain allowed to opt-out of the application of this directive, and the politicians at the helm of the 'Leave' campaign are of much the same mind. Look at what they've been doing to the junior doctors. There are other laws and protections they want to scrap and I'd rather not go without them, thanks. The 'Leave' campaign was basically driven by xenophobic shouting about foreigners and immigrants and nothing else - again, there's a reason why it was most aggressively supported by UKIP, who  are basically the BNP in suits - and it angers me that people could not see past the smokescreen to all the issues that are at stake.

I am hoping that this exit may not actually go through, because a referendum is not legally binding and in the two years it would take to withdraw from the EU people may come to their senses and recognise that this has the potential to seriously hurt us. But just in case, I have researched the process for acquiring Irish or French citizenship. Nada, you may end up with one more Brit in your village even if the others are evicted. It seems that I'd need to move to France and live there for five years, and then apply - the process is the same even for non-EU nationals. I already have reasonable French, and I will seriously look into it if this fiasco trundles ahead.

[NadaTeTurbe]

34 minutes ago, beatitude said:

I am shocked, and angry, but like Ash Wednesday I am containing my fears and hoping for the best. Some of my fears are difficult to contain, however. The pound has already fallen, it's had a knock-on effect on some other currencies, and leaving the EU will have a further impact on the economy - there's a reason why pretty much every economist in the UK was campaigning to remain. I am also fearful for what this means for people in jobs like mine (long hours, shift work) as the Working Time Directive is enshrined by the EU. Yesterday a nurse made a mistake with the rota and required a colleague to work from 9:00 to 23:00 and then be back in at 07:00 the following day. Because the UK has to abide by the Working Time Directive, that is illegal - you can't expect someone to leave their job after a fourteen-hour shift and then be back eight hours later - but now this could very easily become legal. Last year the Prime Minister tried to have Britain allowed to opt-out of the application of this directive, and the politicians at the helm of the 'Leave' campaign are of much the same mind. Look at what they've been doing to the junior doctors. There are other laws and protections they want to scrap and I'd rather not go without them, thanks. The 'Leave' campaign was basically driven by xenophobic shouting about foreigners and immigrants and nothing else - again, there's a reason why it was most aggressively supported by UKIP, who  are basically the BNP in suits - and it angers me that people could not see past the smokescreen to all the issues that are at stake.

I am hoping that this exit may not actually go through, because a referendum is not legally binding and in the two years it would take to withdraw from the EU people may come to their senses and recognise that this has the potential to seriously hurt us. But just in case, I have researched the process for acquiring Irish or French citizenship. Nada, you may end up with one more Brit in your village even if the others are evicted. It seems that I'd need to move to France and live there for five years, and then apply - the process is the same even for non-EU nationals. I already have reasonable French, and I will seriously look into it if this fiasco trundles ahead.

Do you think that the politicians could choose to ignore the referendum ?

I'm all about welcoming british, spanish, syrian, whatever, as long as they make the effort to learn french  The couple living in our village doesn't want the nationality, so they don't even know how to say bonjour. We'll be more than happy to welcome you ! However, I hope you will be able to stay home. Britain have a strong economy, in the long term, if good decision are taken, I'm sure you'll be good. 

I said to a friend that Britain was leaving Europe, and her answer was "Why are they leaving a football tournament ? "  

[Anomaly]

Funny, my Brit in-laws have been complaining for years about immigrants that come to England and UK and won't learn the language or blend in with  Brutish culture.   Just like anti-immigration Americans and Nada's complaints.   Even here in rural Southern America, people complain about the Latin stores, restaurants, and neighbors that don't speak English.   Brexit, walls, English mandatory, it seems all the same.   

On the bright side, if the pound stays low, my wife and I may plan another UK visit sooner than ten years.  My in laws are returning to England in a couple weeks.  Curious to see what their impress are.  

[Maggyie]

It's interesting to read the perspectives. My husband helps on the strategy team for one of the big banks here in the US and feels this will be short term bad news, long term good news. 

Short term, bad, because of uncertainty and turbulence in the global economy. 

Long term, good, because he thinks the EU has a fatal flaw in its financial system, where the countries aren't united closely enough where they can truly row together, but they ARE tied together enough where they can drag each other into depression or recession.  So they are going from crisis to crisis, some richer countries feel they can force austerity on other countries, even though it's devastating for the people there, etc.

None of the bureaucrats will admit what's wrong so it was only a matter of time before some country pricked the balloon, apparently Greece is maybe going to leave also?so he thinks its best to pop the balloon and then on the second try for an EU they can get it right. 

[Anomaly]

Good time to invest $ in pounds. 

Edited June 24, 2016 by Anomaly

[Ash Wednesday]

I go through a mix of emotions about all this. Today I've gone from calm in the morning, to very distraught in the afternoon, to just resigned and numb. 

[NadaTeTurbe]

30 minutes ago, Ash Wednesday said:

I go through a mix of emotions about all this. Today I've gone from calm in the morning, to very distraught in the afternoon, to just resigned and numb. 

I'll pray for your peace of mind, as well as the futurs of the United Kingdom. 

Maggyie : One or two years ago, there was a lot of discussion about a Grexit, but I don't think anymore. WIth the situation at Lesbos, it would be too dangerous. Plus, I'm not sure how it works, but some countries can't do  a referendum about leaving the EU, depending on their constitution. 

[PhuturePriest]

Absolutely couldn't be happier. Had God gotten it right and made me a UK citizen, I would've voted Leave.

Of course the economy is experiencing a bit of a shock. That was always anticipated. The problem is people always look at the now and not the future. The pound is already recovering, and this as a whole the economy is intact and leaving has offered the UK much more open space for trade. It no longer has to deal with the many restrictions of the EU via regulations, and it can now deal with its immigrant problems internally.

I know I'm in the minority on this, and that's fine. I'm not particularly for arguing the matter since it's already done. But as for my personal thoughts, I was very heavily for leaving, and I am very pleased with the result and excited for the future of the UK's economic possibilities and freedom to properly deal with its internal affairs.

3 hours ago, Maggyie said:

It's interesting to read the perspectives. My husband helps on the strategy team for one of the big banks here in the US and feels this will be short term bad news, long term good news. 

Short term, bad, because of uncertainty and turbulence in the global economy. 

Long term, good, because he thinks the EU has a fatal flaw in its financial system, where the countries aren't united closely enough where they can truly row together, but they ARE tied together enough where they can drag each other into depression or recession.  So they are going from crisis to crisis, some richer countries feel they can force austerity on other countries, even though it's devastating for the people there, etc.

None of the bureaucrats will admit what's wrong so it was only a matter of time before some country pricked the balloon, apparently Greece is maybe going to leave also?so he thinks its best to pop the balloon and then on the second try for an EU they can get it right. 

This sums up my thoughts in a much more educated way. Too many people are focused on the initial shock to the global economy without thought of the positives it will mean in the future. The EU really is screwed up in a lot of ways, and it no longer serves its original purpose.

As for other EU nations leaving, I hear they're calling for national referendums in France and the Netherlands.

Edited June 24, 2016 by PhuturePriest