Jump to content
Ice_nine

For those who defend Trump

Recommended Posts

KnightofChrist
1 hour ago, Ice_nine said:

These are the kind of people that also support him http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/richard-spencer-speech-npi/508379/

Thoughts?

My thoughts on it are this neo-nazi group loves the free commercial Atlantic has written about them, now they have that free commercial here. Your question is accusatory and full of bs. I believe your doing exactly as Atlantic intended which was to go out and judge or accuse Trump supporters. No Trump defender here supports neo-nazis groups. But no Trump defender should have to answer your accusatory judgemental question. Ask the neo-nazi defenders on Phatmass instead. And the election is over can election threads be over too, please?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dominicansoul

The advocate, a gay magazine, also fully supported Pope Francis and made him their "man of the year" after his "who am I to judge" speech.  

I guess that makes Pope Francis gay and the rest of us homosexuals. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Anomaly

...and apparently this is a pro-atheist site since I've been allowed to post here for years.

And I'm also inferring you may have voted for Hillary since you seem so disgusted with Trump.  Where have you been the last few days?   In therapy coping with the fear of Donald, or volunteering at the abortion clinic to make it safe and legal?

How about those Muslims?  If neo nazis support Trump, it's obvious that all of Islam wants to cut Catholic's heads off.

I've never seen or heard of a squirrel cutting someone's head off or burning a cross.    We should live in trees and eat nuts.   

Edited by Anomaly

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quasar

I voted for Obama twice but felt I had no choice but to vote for Trump this time.  Maybe crawl out of your echo chamber sometime and explore how your candidate managed to lose this election.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
CountrySteve21

When we consider our countries mind set and how it belittles good morality, it should come as no surprise  the candidates we end up with have little too no good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Anomaly

In reality, people are complicated and are not just either demons or angels.   I voted for Trump and was a little relieved when I thought he wasn't going to win early election night. I'm glad we have a new president without a military revolution.    

The campaigns and the media was about sensationalizing the worst of the candidates.  Saul Alinsky Rules are effective marketing ploys, and fundamentally destructive to intelligent discourse.   We've been pawns of the media so we will watch, click, and see ads for new cars and cell phones.  The wanted our attention only.  There was/is no intention to impartially inform.   Of course we mostly believe we chose between two evils instead of choosing between the better of two flawed candidates.  

Now is a the time to look for and encourage the best in each other, not look for and highlight the worse to feed fear and hatred.  It's called pragmatic optimism.  According to the Bible, God would have left the city of Sodom intact if only ten good people could be found.  There is a lesson in there somewhere.  

Edited by Anomaly

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
CatherineM

Lot of neo-nazis voted for Romney and Bush. They're citizens and allowed to vote like the rest of us. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Peace
8 hours ago, KnightofChrist said:

My thoughts on it are this neo-nazi group loves the free commercial Atlantic has written about them, now they have that free commercial here. Your question is accusatory and full of bs. I believe your doing exactly as Atlantic intended which was to go out and judge or accuse Trump supporters. No Trump defender here supports neo-nazis groups. But no Trump defender should have to answer your accusatory judgemental question. Ask the neo-nazi defenders on Phatmass instead. And the election is over can election threads be over too, please?

What accusatory judgmental question? She just asked what your thoughts on the article were. Where did she suggest that anyone here is a racist?

I suppose that I would be a little defensive or uneasy with my choice had I voted for Trump as well. That is understandable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quasar
1 hour ago, Anomaly said:

In reality, people are complicated and are not just either demons or angels.   I voted for Trump and was a little relieved when I thought he wasn't going to win early election night. I'm glad we have a new president without a military revolution.    

The campaigns and the media was about sensationalizing the worst of the candidates.  Saul Alinsky Rules are effective marketing ploys, and fundamentally destructive to intelligent discourse.   We've been pawns of the media so we will watch, click, and see ads for new cars and cell phones.  The wanted our attention only.  There was/is no intention to impartially inform.   Of course we mostly believe we chose between two evils instead of choosing between the better of two flawed candidates.  

Well said.  However, at this point I'm excited for the possibilities of a new administration.  

This will be an interesting historical footnote, and the Democratic Party could remake itself, if its members develop any intellectual curiosity about how their candidate lost to a reality star.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
KnightofChrist
4 hours ago, Peace said:

What accusatory judgmental question? She just asked what your thoughts on the article were. Where did she suggest that anyone here is a racist?

You were/are a Trump detractor, there are others on PM who were and are Trump detractors. But you're not going to see me asking loaded accusatory questions to Trump detractors.

Such as what the Phatmass Trump detractors think about the assaults on Trump defenders, the fabricated claims of attacks by Trump defenders on Trump detractors, the burning of buildings, smashing of windows, smashing of cars, the calls to assassinate Trump, the calls to rape Trump's wife, the over all violent protests against Trump (aka riots), and other acts of domestic terrorism by fringe Trump detractors.

I'm not going to do that for the same reasons I objected to being associated with neo-nazis and because I know no one here supports those things so asking would only be insulting and pointless. Just because I defended Trump and others did so on PM, doesn't mean we should have to answer for some wacko neo-nazi jackholes. No more than you and other PM Trump detractors should have to answer for the violent wacko fringe Trump detractors. It would be rude, it would be judgemental and it would be accusatory.

Quote

I suppose that I would be a little defensive or uneasy with my choice had I voted for Trump as well. That is understandable.

You've just proven my point with that passive aggressive accusation. I am not a neo-nazi and I do not answer for the actions of neo-nazis. It should be assumed that I do not support neo-nazis. You are not a rioting domestic terrorist, you do not need to answer for the actions of domestic terrorists. It should be assumed that you don't support domestic terrorists. Being for or against Trump isn't good cause to ask such loaded questions.

Edited by KnightofChrist

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Amppax
5 hours ago, CatherineM said:

Lot of neo-nazis voted for Romney and Bush. They're citizens and allowed to vote like the rest of us. 

Bush and Romney didn't appoint Steve Bannon to a position in their cabinet though. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Amppax

This really isn't the issue. Everyone has their nut jobs. These people are excited by Trump, in a way previous Republicans didn't excite them, but it's not like they weren't on the fringes of conservatism before. What is worrisome is that Trump might bring this sort of explicit racism more into the mainstream. Ironically, I think the all out media coverage is only fueling that mainstreaming (see this article: http://thefederalist.com/2016/11/22/dear-media-please-dont-normalize-alt-right/)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nihil Obstat

Does anyone have handy an article or source that has a more or less comprehensive index of reasons for considering Steve Bannon to be a racist? My very short search did not turn up anything solid, and I do not have time to dig in more depth.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Peace
1 hour ago, KnightofChrist said:

You were/are a Trump detractor, there are others on PM who were and are Trump detractors. But you're not going to see me asking loaded accusatory questions to Trump detractors.

Such as what the Phatmass Trump detractors think about the assaults on Trump defenders, the fabricated claims of attacks by Trump defenders on Trump detractors, the burning of buildings, smashing of windows, smashing of cars, the calls to assassinate Trump, the calls to rape Trump's wife, the over all violent protests against Trump (aka riots), and other acts of domestic terrorism by fringe Trump detractors.

I'm not going to do that for the same reasons I objected to being associated with neo-nazis and because I know no one here supports those things so asking would only be insulting and pointless. Just because I defended Trump and others did so on PM, doesn't mean we should have to answer for some wacko neo-nazi jackholes. No more than you and other PM Trump detractors should have to answer for the violent wacko fringe Trump detractors. It would be rude, it would be judgemental and it would be accusatory.

You've just proven my point with that passive aggressive accusation. I am not a neo-nazi and I do not answer for the actions of neo-nazis. It should be assumed that I do not support neo-nazis. You are not a rioting domestic terrorist, you do not need to answer for the actions of domestic terrorists. It should be assumed that you don't support domestic terrorists. Being for or against Trump isn't good cause to ask such loaded questions.

I voted for the ASP candidate. If there were an article about some member of the KKK supporting the ASP candidate, and someone asked for my thoughts on it, I would not jump to the conclusion that they were implying that I am a racist or a KKK supporter. I would not have reacted "how dare you even ask for my thought on the article, you should know how I would respond." I would have simply replied with something along the lines of "it is a shame that such people exist. I wonder why they support the ASP candidate." Your reaction strikes me as overly sensitive and defensive, and perhaps that is because you have serious reservations about your candidate or the choice you made. But nobody here has accused you of being a racist, either explicitly or implicitly. I think that most of the things that you think you are being accused of are in your own head.

6 minutes ago, Nihil Obstat said:

Does anyone have handy an article or source that has a more or less comprehensive index of reasons for considering Steve Bannon to be a racist? My very short search did not turn up anything solid, and I do not have time to dig in more depth.

I wonder if he is the victim of the Dem smear machine? A couple of days ago my GF (Dem) told me that Jeff Sessions was slated for AG and was racist for various reasons. But then when I looked at the actual evidence, I couldn't see much of anything, other than a few statements that he allegedly made.

Basically whoever the GOP puts up the Dems will try to portray him as racist. You would think that this most recent election result would cause them to rethink that strategy... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
philothea
16 minutes ago, Nihil Obstat said:

Does anyone have handy an article or source that has a more or less comprehensive index of reasons for considering Steve Bannon to be a racist? My very short search did not turn up anything solid, and I do not have time to dig in more depth.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/08/the-radical-anti-conservatism-of-stephen-bannon/496796/

This is a pretty good round up of his behaviors so far. It's from August, so nothing to do with his recent appointment. 

It seems to me that he's not personally a racist, but he's perfectly happy to promote racist causes if it fits his own agenda... which in effect is kind of the same thing. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Amppax
24 minutes ago, Nihil Obstat said:

Does anyone have handy an article or source that has a more or less comprehensive index of reasons for considering Steve Bannon to be a racist? My very short search did not turn up anything solid, and I do not have time to dig in more depth.

I don't consider Bannon a racist (though he may well be), I consider him an enabler of racists. It is indisputable that under his leadership, Breitbart embraced and actively sought to market itself as the champion of the alt-right. Per Breitbart's own article on what the alt-right is ("An Establishment Conservatives Guide to the Alt-Right"), the movement is vile, and the fact that Trump chooses as his chief strategist someone who has actively embraced this moniker (whether for political gain or from genuine sentiment) is troublesome. 

Of course, defenders of Trump have been insistent that this characterization is unfair (see Dave Armstrong's extensive defense of Bannon: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/davearmstrong/2016/11/mark-shea-lies-bannonbreitbart-the-novelty-of-facts.html). I personally think that Yiannopolous's article is pretty damning. Or the article on the Daily Stormer "A Normie's Guide to the Alt-Right." 

Edited by Amppax

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nihil Obstat
5 minutes ago, philothea said:

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/08/the-radical-anti-conservatism-of-stephen-bannon/496796/

This is a pretty good round up of his behaviors so far. It's from August, so nothing to do with his recent appointment. 

It seems to me that he's not personally a racist, but he's perfectly happy to promote racist causes if it fits his own agenda... which in effect is kind of the same thing. 

I do not see a single accusation of racism in that article. Did I miss something? It just seemed like a long, well-written complaint about a 'radical right-winger'.

Just now, Amppax said:

I don't consider Bannon a racist (though he may well be), I consider him an enabler of racists. It is indisputable that under his leadership, Breitbart embraced and actively sought to market itself as the champion of the alt-right. Per Breitbart's own article on what the alt-right is ("An Establishment Conservatives Guide to the Alt-Right"), the movement is vile, and the fact that Trump chooses as his chief strategist someone who has actively embraced this moniker (whether for political gain or from genuine sentiment) is troublesome. 

Of course, defenders of Trump have been insistent that this characterization is unfair. I personally think that Yiannopolous's article is pretty damning. Or the article on the Daily Stormer "A Normie's Guide to the Alt-Right." 

That connection seems a bit too tenuous to me. Yes, there is an undeniable racist element in the alt-right. Yes, Bannon is a key figure in the alt-right. Unless there is something I am missing, I do not see enough from these facts alone to conclude that Bannon supports the racist faction of the alt-right. And simple guilt by association is too weak; those are the tactics from progressives that led to Trump's victory in the first place.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×