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dUSt

Donald Trump and Racism

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dominicansoul

Well, here's one example:  supposedly, when campaigning for the border wall, he mentioned we needed to stop the rapists, thieves, druggies, etc.  The media spun that to mean, "Trump says all MEXICANS ARE CRIMINALS"

 

I blame all the division and rise of white supremacy on the media themselves.  Not so much Trump.  Trump reminds me of Pope Francis in that they both speak off the cuff remarks that are interpreted however your side wants it to mean.  In Trump's case, he doesn't stand a chance of saying anything meaningful, not with the Democrat Party branch of the media running 24/7 calumny against him.  

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dUSt
1 hour ago, vee said:

What remarks did he make that are racist?  Source?  

The fact that he says stuff like "good people on both sides", when one of the sides is Nazi's and White Supremacists. It's a dumb thing to say, and in my opinion, only something someone who is racist would say. I cannot understand how a non-racist person would make a statement like this.

He never says stuff like that when talking about ISIS. I'm sure he doesn't believe there are "good people on both sides" when one side is ISIS. Only a person who sympathizes or can justify the actions of the other side would use this type of language.

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Anomaly
1 hour ago, vee said:

Good read.  An excerpt:

"In my days of pride, I hated my enemies, and I expected my enemies to hate me. It was the old law of: an eye for an eye. You hurt me and I hurt you. You hate me and I hate you. Hate breeding hatred. Picture the scenes of demonstrators and counterdemonstrators at Charlottesville, venting their spleens against each other, screaming their hatred at each other, each feeding off the other’s frenzy."

What is a racist?   Is it someone who hates and/or fears someone because of their race and assumes the worst?

8 minutes ago, dUSt said:

The fact that he says stuff like "good people on both sides", when one of the sides is Nazi's and White Supremacists. It's a dumb thing to say, and in my opinion, only something someone who is racist would say. I cannot understand how a non-racist person would make a statement like this.

He never says stuff like that when talking about ISIS. I'm sure he doesn't believe there are "good people on both sides" when one side is ISIS. Only a person who sympathizes or can justify the actions of the other side would use this type of language.

So you belive EVERYONE that was in Charlottesville protesting the removal of the Confederate Memorials are white supremacists?

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dUSt
15 minutes ago, Anomaly said:

So you belive EVERYONE that was in Charlottesville protesting the removal of the Confederate Memorials are white supremacists?

No, probably not, but at the very least, racist. Furthermore, correct me if I'm wrong, but the "good people on both sides" comments was in reference to the violence, was it not? I doubt everyone at the protest was actually involved in the violence--and I'm willing to bet that the ones that WERE involved in the violence (the situation Trump is referring to) were a higher "class" of racists than the non-violent ones.

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Anomaly
2 minutes ago, dUSt said:

No, probably not, but at the very least, racist. Furthermore, correct me if I'm wrong, but the "good people on both sides" comments was in reference to the violence, was it not? I doubt everyone at the protest was actually involved in the violence--and I'm willing to bet that the ones that WERE involved in the violence (the situation Trump is referring to) were a higher "class" of racists than the non-violent ones.

Good people in both sides referred to protestors who were NOT engaged in violence but voicing opinions.  Still not sure on your threshold or definition for racist.   Is it EVERYONE who did not support the removal of the statue?

 

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dUSt
Just now, Anomaly said:

Good people in both sides referred to protestors who were NOT engaged in violence but voicing opinions.  Still not sure on your threshold or definition for racist.   Is it EVERYONE who did not support the removal of the statue?

I can't possibly know every person who was at the protest. Here's what I'm saying. There were Nazi and White Supremacist groups. There were also people there not part of those groups, but protesting along side of those groups. ALL of those people are racist. Now, if there were people there protesting the statue removal, and were able to somehow disassociate themselves from the known hate groups, then I suppose there is a chance that those people were not racist. If you can show me or provide a link to this group, I'd appreciate it. I couldn't find them.

If I was at a pro-vegan rally that got taken over by a "kill dairy farmers" fringe group, I would not stay. Any pro-vegan who did stay to protest side by side with the "kill dairy farmer" group would be just as guilty.

 

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Anomaly

If you felt the statue had something to do with local cultural identity and if you did not support the removal of Lee on a horse that has been there since 1924 and were protesting and some WS showed up, you would be a racist if you did not immediately go home?   

You do know that the issue of the statue removal is winding through the local courts, don't you?

 

Edited by Anomaly

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dUSt
Just now, Anomaly said:

If you felt the statue had something to do with local cultural identity and if you did not support the removal of Lee on a horse that has been there since 1924 and were protesting and some WS showed up, you would be a racist if you did not immediately go home?   

Yes.

If you went to a rally supporting lower deductibles for healthcare, and when you got there, it was a bunch of people holding pro-choice signs, would you stay and protest along side of them?

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dominicansoul

I doubt he meant fine people in the antifa and white supremacists groups (both groups are domestic terrorists in my opinion,) he was speaking of those who showed up against taking the statue down, as well as those not a part of antifa who showed up to support taking them down.

My personal opinion?  who in their right mind goes to a protest where the KKK meet the Commies in our country?  You KNOW something bad will happen!!! 

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Anomaly
2 minutes ago, dUSt said:

Yes.

If you went to a rally supporting lower deductibles for healthcare, and when you got there, it was a bunch of people holding pro-choice signs, would you stay and protest along side of them?

Well, I don't support either so that wasn't a helpful example.   

But I do support both sides to be able to voice their opinion and they have to tolerate my opinion that does not agree with them and not be able to prevent my anti-abortion, high deductible health plan rally. 

Hopefully its dialogue that may illuminate a solution.  

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vee

Right, dialogue and not violence. The thing was there were people on both sides who seemed intent on violence.  

Ill need to read a longer statement of trumps "good people on both sides" statement to get a better idea of his meaning. 

A bit off topic but still on the theme of kkk racism etc is this documentary  I enjoyed it, very thought provoking 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/kkk-klu-klux-klan-members-leave-black-man-racism-friends-convince-persuade-chicago-daryl-davis-a7489596.html

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CatherineM

I had friends who are civil war reenactmentors and sons/daughters of the confederacy who went to protest the removal. All left as soon as the nazis showed up. 

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Anomaly

Which conversation starter to you think would have a better chance of changing minds and hearts?:

"Stupid hateful racists, shut up and listen as I tell you what you are wrong about and what you going to do and not do."

or

"Good people, we need to discuss our disagreement.  This is what I think.   What is your concern?"

Though I'm sure the first one would get more Facebook and news link clicks...

Edited by Anomaly

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Era Might

I don't think he's a racist. Racists are (generally) uneducated, stupid people. Which is not the same as poor people. You can be rich and stupid. Trump, unfortunately, is rich and smart (not intelligent, but smart). This is all a reality TV show for him. He's the host. He knows how to play the game, like Jerry Springer. He tapped into a vein of fear and loathing and rode it to the White House. He doesn't hate black people. He doesn't even think about black people. Or white people. If you ever saw the movie Running Man with Arnold Schwarzenegger, Trump is Richard Dawson, denouncing Fake News because he, literally, is fake news. Trump is the president of the Facebook age, of online content where it seems like you're getting what you voted for, but what you're really getting is content fed by billions of dollars of advertisers deciding what to show you. He knows how to play the game, his comments about Charlottesville are all calculated, he knows he can't come out and be overtly trollish, but he wants to send backhanded messages to the rednecks and middle America people and snakehandling Christians...he's one of them, wink wink. He's not one of them, anymore than Hitler was German or Stalin was Russian.

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2 hours ago, Anomaly said:

So you belive EVERYONE that was in Charlottesville protesting the removal of the Confederate Memorials are white supremacists?

Yes. They want their people back on top of history. The Confederacy was not a culture or a people, it's a power structure. There is no such thing as "white people." White is a power structure, not a people or a nation. Racists in the South were often perfectly happy to live alongside black people. They often had a black mammy they loved. But the idea of black people being politically equal, that was what they wouldn't stand for. The Confederacy has gone down in history with King George and the British Empire. It only exists in the American narrative as a figure of oppression and opposition. 

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Anomaly

I actually live in the Deep South. There is a strong defensiveness against Northeners/Yankees who think the average/majority of southerners are ignorant peasants that need Yankee supervision.   There will always elitists that know better than the populi.  That isn't racist, that's arrogance and identity politics that is often exploited by both sides.

Locally, we are debating the placement and removal of these monuments.  Just as many justifiably see them as remnants of institutionalized race oppression, others see them as rebellious symbols against cultural oppression by dismissive elites.   Evil power mongers fan conflict into hate and votes, risking the crowding out of respectfully airing opinions, jeopardizing understanding the differences, and preventing coming to a rational and cooperative resolution. 

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