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FDR and Racism

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Papist    6,901
Papist

This man built concentration camps for Japanese-Americans during World War II and deprived these American citizens of their homes, businesses, property, and livelihoods for the crime of being of the same ethnic ancestry as our enemy. He also clapped German-Americans and Italian-Americans into those camps for the same reason. He even managed to get his racism enshrined into Constitutional Law when he won the case brought against him in Koramatsu v. United States of America.


This man turned away a ship filled with more than 900 European Jews seeking refuge from Hitler in May, 1939.


This man would not, at the behest of the Vatican and Jewish organizations, bomb the railroad tracks leading to Auschwitz and other death camps. It is a story told by many Church scholars, and most recently by Pope Francis.


This man put his all into researching, developing, and building the atomic bombs we dropped on Japan. It would have been FDR who gave the order, had he lived a few more months.


Will New York City Mayor DeBlasio rename Roosevelt Island, Roosevelt Park, the FDR Drive, and remove all statues of this racist who brought the nuclear nightmare to the world? What of the rest of the nation? Will the iconoclasts go after FDR as well?

 

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Luigi    3,349
Luigi

NO ONE in politics has unstained hands. Past presidents have owned slaves, or didn't own slaves themselves but allowed slavery to continue, or acted to end slavery but only when it was politically expedient, or invaded neighboring territories to augment US territory, or bombed innocent civilians, or cheated on their wives, or... or... or...

The current trend of outrage at past events is misguided and wrongheaded. We cannot hold past politicians to current standards - nor past scientists, nor past teachers, nor past farmers, nor past doctors, nor anyone else. They were doing the best they could with what they knew at the time. Now we know better - partly because we learned from their mistakes, or the consequences of their decisions -, so we try to do better.

The current trend of outrage at past events is Puritanical and perfectionistic. The outraged expect their targets to think in perfect agreement with them, be motivated in perfect agreement with them, speak in perfect agreement with them, act in perfect agreement with them, to achieve the goal which the outraged have decided is perfect - while the outraged are imperfect themselves.

  

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dominicansoul    4,458
dominicansoul
1 minute ago, vee said:

Trump is still worse. 

And THIS is completely the whole basis for the outrage!!!  It's all about Trump, not about racism or really giving a floop about the Confederacy,  or even hating the KKK.  It all boils down to the concerted effort to hurt this one man.  I've never seen the Left so completely unhinged as they have been since Trump beat their pantsuit goddess.

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Anomaly    2,480
Anomaly

Trump's statement was weak and a little equivocal because he wanted to avoid offending middle and lower class white voters who feel marginalized and pushed to the side by today's hyper sensitive PC culture.    It was then exaggerated and misinterpreted to attack Trump both with ill intent and sincere belief.  

With today's constant media message onslaught, only the superficial hysterical sound bite is valued.  You either love or hate.   You cannot respectfully disagree with 10% of something. Trump himself as been both a beneficiary and victim of today's polarized and polarizing mass media hype that too many think is intelligent discourse. 

It isn't about what Dems did or do or Reps are or aren't more racist.   

Its being honest that the Confederate Monuments represents both good and bad things to different groups in our ONE society.   We should be able to have an intelligent conversation about this and be open to both sides having valid, but different reasonable points. There's certainly could be a compromise somewhere.   

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dairygirl4u2c    62
dairygirl4u2c

past presidents who did wrong things like fdr or even washington should be denounced for what they did. i'd leave it there but it seems like it's all a distraction from denouncing the evils on the right or elsewhere and that isn't a good thing. to anyone drawing lines to the confederate issue, those guys are only known for one thing, their rebellion to protect slavery. that's why we honor one and not the other. 

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dominicansoul    4,458
dominicansoul

I just want everybody to think like me, cos if they don't they are all filthy baby killing communists

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Norseman82    856
Norseman82

Here in Chicago some want to rename Balbo Drive (named after Italian General Italo Balbo, who served in the Italian Air Force under Mussolini and made a trans-Atlantic journey to the 1933 world's fair in Chicago): 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italo_Balbo 

In remembrance of that event, Mussolini sent a monument to Chicago that they also want removed: 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balbo_Monument

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/protesters-demand-removal-of-monument-to-fascist-italo-balbo/2017/08/24/bf7ca97e-88f2-11e7-96a7-d178cf3524eb_story.html?utm_term=.b8a6b7750639

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Amppax    2,679
Amppax
On 8/25/2017 at 1:12 PM, Anomaly said:

Trump's statement was weak and a little equivocal because he wanted to avoid offending middle and lower class white voters who feel marginalized and pushed to the side by today's hyper sensitive PC culture.    It was then exaggerated and misinterpreted to attack Trump both with ill intent and sincere belief.  

With today's constant media message onslaught, only the superficial hysterical sound bite is valued.  You either love or hate.   You cannot respectfully disagree with 10% of something. Trump himself as been both a beneficiary and victim of today's polarized and polarizing mass media hype that too many think is intelligent discourse. 

It isn't about what Dems did or do or Reps are or aren't more racist.   

Its being honest that the Confederate Monuments represents both good and bad things to different groups in our ONE society.   We should be able to have an intelligent conversation about this and be open to both sides having valid, but different reasonable points. There's certainly could be a compromise somewhere.   

For the most part, I agree with this sentiment. So what does compromise look like, to you? 

I think a lot of the hysteria from the left has been just that, hysteria. I also think there has been a pretty hysterical reaction (not necessarily saying that about anyone here, I haven't been around much lately). There has certainly been very little done to give credence to good points made by those on the other side, from both sides. I can think of some exceptions, mostly on the right. 

 

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Anomaly    2,480
Anomaly

Compromise would be relocating the Confederate monument from in front of Government buildings. No exceptions

Public vote to remove from public property, such as parks.  

Removal from Government to be paid by Government.   On other property , 50% public 50% private.   100% relocation costs by private funds.

Thats a start    A lot needs to be discussed at a local level with mutual respect.   A Confederate monument is not necessarily 100% racist, but it is impossible got it to be 100% NOT racist.

 

 

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dominicansoul    4,458
dominicansoul

What will be the terms for when they force crosses to be removed from all public places, and to where we cannot display our faith in public because the leftists demand our faith is bigoted and racist and historically killed off the First Nations and native Americans?  Will they force it all into a museum too? 

Whos to judge what is racist in our society?  Leftists?  Do we really want them judging what is right and wrong?  

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havok579257    259
havok579257
15 minutes ago, dominicansoul said:

What will be the terms for when they force crosses to be removed from all public places, and to where we cannot display our faith in public because the leftists demand our faith is bigoted and racist and historically killed off the First Nations and native Americans?  Will they force it all into a museum too? 

Whos to judge what is racist in our society?  Leftists?  Do we really want them judging what is right and wrong?  

i think any sane person can judge confederate statues are racist to black people.  i honestly don't know how any human with any sense could not understand what a confederate statue means to a black person.

 

i think some things are not subjective and can be asserted quite easily.  yes, its subjective to say Trump is a racist.  its not subjective to say a confederate statues which represents a time and a group of people who killed, mutilated, tortured, raped and so on toward black people is racist to them.   the fact is, at the end of the day black people were treated so inhumanly in this country.  the statues of the people who fought to keep the status quo the same represent hatred and bigotry to black people.  cut it any way you want, but to black american's this is what it represents.  so i don't understand why people are not ok with these statues coming down?  if you were in a black persons shoes, you to would want it down.  i think we need to look at it from the victims point of view and understand what it means to them and why it needs to come down.

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dominicansoul    4,458
dominicansoul
16 minutes ago, havok579257 said:

i think any sane person can judge confederate statues are racist to black people.  i honestly don't know how any human with any sense could not understand what a confederate statue means to a black person.

 

i think some things are not subjective and can be asserted quite easily.  yes, its subjective to say Trump is a racist.  its not subjective to say a confederate statues which represents a time and a group of people who killed, mutilated, tortured, raped and so on toward black people is racist to them.   the fact is, at the end of the day black people were treated so inhumanly in this country.  the statues of the people who fought to keep the status quo the same represent hatred and bigotry to black people.  cut it any way you want, but to black american's this is what it represents.  so i don't understand why people are not ok with these statues coming down?  if you were in a black persons shoes, you to would want it down.  i think we need to look at it from the victims point of view and understand what it means to them and why it needs to come down.

Im against racism.  And duly noted, all though These things have never bothered me enough to destroy them,  i can see why the black community hates them...

but my whole objection arises from the type of censorship and how it may fall on us someday as well.  It's already happening to some Catholic imagery.  .

 I'm weary of any kind of censorship 

I hate racism but I am not against legally censoring it.  If some dumbass wants to be hateful he has every right to be.  This is America!  If two men can fall in "love" and marry, why can't two men hate each other's guts?  Are we really wanting to control each other's emotions?  Do you really want one group to control the other way to think?  That's why it's dangerous to allow certain groups to define what is offensive and what is not.  Religious have pretty much objected to every ungodly thing American law has done in the past 60 years.  What we do is pray and hope and act civilly against such things.  We aren't out there pulling girls out of abortion clinics by force, tearing down billboards or burning planned parenthoods.  

Why couldn't cities vote on these confederate monuments?   

I'm a little suspicious as to why this iconoclasm is happening now?  Why not under husseins rule?  Things that make you go hmmmmmm.  

 

I agree wirh with your sentiment, but I don't think that's the real reason it's  happening... I'm very suspicious... 

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havok579257    259
havok579257
36 minutes ago, dominicansoul said:

Im against racism.  And duly noted, all though These things have never bothered me enough to destroy them,  i can see why the black community hates them...

but my whole objection arises from the type of censorship and how it may fall on us someday as well.  It's already happening to some Catholic imagery.  .

 I'm weary of any kind of censorship 

I hate racism but I am not against legally censoring it.  If some dumbass wants to be hateful he has every right to be.  This is America!  If two men can fall in "love" and marry, why can't two men hate each other's guts?  Are we really wanting to control each other's emotions?  Do you really want one group to control the other way to think?  That's why it's dangerous to allow certain groups to define what is offensive and what is not.  Religious have pretty much objected to every ungodly thing American law has done in the past 60 years.  What we do is pray and hope and act civilly against such things.  We aren't out there pulling girls out of abortion clinics by force, tearing down billboards or burning planned parenthoods.  

Why couldn't cities vote on these confederate monuments?   

I'm a little suspicious as to why this iconoclasm is happening now?  Why not under husseins rule?  Things that make you go hmmmmmm.  

 

I agree wirh with your sentiment, but I don't think that's the real reason it's  happening... I'm very suspicious... 

i am all for two guys hating each other as a right.  the issue for me is these statues are on government property and were paid for by government money, so they should come down.  if its privately funded and on private property then i don't care.  although i think there are somethings that the government should not promote.  this is one of them.  

 

the media is just covering this now.  groups of black people have been trying to get these statues down for a while.  its only the media covering it now is when it gets noticed by the majority of the public.  can't blame that on the people who are wanting the statues down.

 

hussein?  do you mean obama?  can't really call out liberals for their insults toward Trump when your doing the same thing to obama.

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