PadrePioOfPietrelcino Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 This was an interesting question which came up in discussion during a class. I figured some here MIGHT get a kick out of tossing it around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luigi Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 God owes the devil nothing. Our worst selves? Why would God pay anything to our worst selves? I don't get it. When the first sin was committed, God had given all good things to Adam & Eve. He put only one tiny, little restriction on them - don't eat the fruit of that tree. But they did it anyway, thus breaking the one & only law they were living under, thus defying God. So the sin was committed against God, therefore the debt is owed to God. All sins that followed the first sin are essentially the same in nature, defying God. Therefore, all sin-debt must repay God. Right? So it seems to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 (edited) No sin no saviour. If life was perfect we would be robots void of free will. God needs nothing, the reward is grace and humans need grace to not sin, to not do evil but to do good but not all accept grace and try and figure out life by human and demonic means thinking good can be achieved by evil. Jesus payment is heaven for those who do good. John5 28-29. Do not be surprised at this; the time is coming when all the dead will hear his voice and come out of there graves: those who have done good will rise and have life, and those who have done evil will rise and be condemned. Idk the answer but the father needs nothing, the devil iz gonzers, so that leaves man in need of the payment I guess. Because without grace man can not be good due to the fall. Jesus I trust in you. Edited February 2, 2018 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PadrePioOfPietrelcino Posted February 6, 2018 Author Share Posted February 6, 2018 On 2/1/2018 at 10:26 PM, Luigi said: God owes the devil nothing. Our worst selves? Why would God pay anything to our worst selves? I don't get it. All sins that followed the first sin are essentially the same in nature, defying God. Therefore, all sin-debt must repay God. Right? So it seems to me. On 2/2/2018 at 4:56 AM, Tab'le De'Bah-Rye said: Idk the answer but the father needs nothing, the devil iz gonzers, so that leaves man in need of the payment I guess. Because without grace man can not be good due to the fall. Both of these answers bear insight on the question I think. Mainly we have on one hand God the father was the one sinned against, so it is to God a debt is owed as our disobedience denied God what he is deserving of. At the same Time, God needs nothing, so can God need a debt paid? Then we have man who has denied himself God's love by choosing wrong action. So a debt is owed to ourselves, which we are truly unable to pay. Only God can forgive us and come back to us with our cooperation of free-will. So in this sense a debt to our worst selves who turned away from God could be paid. I think both of these answers have a certain merit to them, and I don't pretend to know the answer at the moment, but I am definitely interested in the thoughts which may be expressed. Pax Christi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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