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linate

God as disappointed, versus allowing you to be tortured

would you rather:  

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linate


eastern christians teach hell is being in God's precense and that being a negative experience for you for eternity. the catholic church historically teaches that hell is being physically tortured for all eternity.  i am wondering how much i am the only one who isn't saintly enough to think being disappointed with yourself for eternity is worse than being tortured for eternity.

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GreenScapularedHuman

Though I am not qualified or wanting to comment on the Catholic position... if memory serves the Catholic Church thinks that the punishments of hell are two-fold, first is the separation from god (which traditionally the Church says is eternal), and the second is particular punishments (which may or may not be eternal). There are also other less-common speculations on the punishments of hell in traditional Catholic thought like the idea that there is no supernatural goodness among those in hell due to their separation from god.

The modern line from the Catholic Church tends to focus on the idea that hell is a voluntary choice by the individual, not a choice or judgment by god, and that its the first (the separation from god) that is the primary punishment regarding hell.

I have shared my personal thoughts elsewhere.

Edited by GreenScapularedHuman

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linate

i do know the catholic encyclopedia says the traditional teaching is literal hellfire and strongly suggests any other thinking is just wishful thinking. i guess the encyclopedia does entertain the idea of not being tortured for eternity.

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GreenScapularedHuman

I briefly glanced across some various sources to refresh my memory and I will share with you what I found.

The Catholic Encyclopedia http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07207a.htm does seem to suggest the fires of hell may not be metaphorical but they seem to add the logical complications/challenges of such a contention. But they essentially discuss what I wrote in the sections of 'poena damni, poena sensus, and accidental pains of the damned'. The Catechism of the Catholic Church http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P2O.HTM also discusses that the chief punishment of hell is separation from god, "1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, "eternal fire."615 The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs."Pope Saint John Paul II http://w2.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/audiences/1999/documents/hf_jp-ii_aud_28071999.html in 1999 also discusses in a rather brief general audience that the sufferings of hell are not a literal hellfire but rather separation from god and that the destination of hell is not a literal place nor a judgment/choice by god but rather the individual.

 

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Tab'le De'Bah-Rye

Holy mother churches discernment is the same as what Jesus says about hell "fear not those that can destroy only your body, but he that can destroy your body and soul in hellfire." I assume Jesus is talking about god the father yes? If not who?

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linate

i had considered today the last post, the verse. perhaps the lost are thrown in the fire and destroyed. it isn't much worse than what God supposedly commanded in the old testament.... that people should be stoned, tortured to death. 
i choose to take the orthodox position and say that everyone experiences God, it all depends on you what that means. that is also the way near death experience people describe things, though about one percent of them are pretty hellish. i just hope it's purgatory for at least most people. i believe God when he says he wishes all the be saved and come to the light of life. 

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Tab'le De'Bah-Rye

To be perfect like the father is perfect is love, love is community, love doesnt charge money for it's services, love is free.

3 is 1, community, a 3 string rope is stronger then 1, individually we are weak. The nature of the beast is selfish. Perhaps hell is for the selfish and heaven is for the helpful outside of payed work, eg. free babysitting, gardening, help building a garage, repairing tiles, plumbing, the list goes on. Christianity is supposed to be a community detached and different from the wider community. Be in the world but not of it. Most do little to nothing outside of payed work and giving money to a chosen charity and most charities now days are not not for profit and have played workers even the ones that claim not for profit. Perhaps the apostles evangelised and built the body and the disciples did some kind of monetary work, but the disciples still need to be community. I rekon great cathedrals where built by a community effort, the spirit of love and that's why there so beautiful as opposed to the pyramids which are plain and boring and built by slaves.

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Tab'le De'Bah-Rye

Hell is more terrible then we dare imagine I believe. Scares me to think I could end up there, I think perhaps I overly concern myself whether others are going there or not and end up there myself. Why worry, pray for others and trust that gods judgement is just, whatever gods judgement may be. 

Pope Francis " a sinner can become a saint, but not the corrupt."

Edited by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye

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Tab'le De'Bah-Rye

I find it easy just to think hell is bad and heaven is good. The wests understanding of what is right and wrong mainly comes from Christianity, not that its always practised. The pagan world has a boomin child sex slave industry and there governments don't do much about it but its not my business to stop that there its to stop it from infiltrating the christian west. Does that make me a racist or defender of children's rights? I think there are no human rites in hell, no morals, no conscience awareness of other peoples dignity, no respect. Heaven on the other hand people have love and respect and help each other.

Pornography is rather hellish to me, it sees only one eyed in the send that a human is simply flesh and a means to profit and doesn't see the human as a whole.

I hate auto correct. Did anyone ask the world if it wants compulsory auto correct? No! Send was meant to say *sense.

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Tab'le De'Bah-Rye

Hell cats are more about what they can gain out of a person and not what they can give to another. Absolute opposites. Psychology says low self esteem or the opposite egotism or whatever else they want to say, Christianity says lack of god whom grants virtue.

Edited by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye

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