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Josh

Why I'm A Humanist And Not A Catholic

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GreenScapularedHuman
49 minutes ago, CatherineM said:

Heinrich Himmler was a product of humanist education. 

He rejected humanitarianism and humanism. He called both weak, inferior, broken, and backwards. He strongly pushed for the opposite of what he considered a stronger, superior, whole, and forward thinking social Darwinism.

To say that he is a product of a humanist education is just about as accurate to say that Hitler and he were products of a Catholic upbringing. But I don't even know what is meant by a 'humanist education' or how one would qualify if he received it or not...

Which at very least Hitler had a reasonably positive relationship with the Vatican and the Catholic Church...

Edited by GreenScapularedHuman

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Luigi

Josh - So you're a humanist, not a Catholic. That's fine. What do you want from us? Are you trying to convert us to your way of thinking? Do you want us to convert you to our way of thinking?

If you've found what you were looking for, why do you post to a Catholic board?

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dUSt

Josh, I'm not sure if you agree with this article or are just posting it for discussion. This guy brings up nothing new or revolutionary. We've discussed all these things many times over the years here at phatmass.

The dude doesn't believe in God. He states a lot of reasons that make sense to him (but not me). Now he basically thinks that every human should be their own God. This is how we get Hitlers. This is why abortion is accepted. This is why people shoot up schools. What's your point?

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GreenScapularedHuman

Hitler believed in a god, he actually staunchly opposed atheism and secularism, he called them corruptions and perversions of the masses... it was apart of Hitler's public explanation for opposing communism and the Soviet Union. Being an atheist was enough to be considered a social deviant in nazi Germany and was enough to be sent to a detention and/or death camp.

The only major Axis power that was actually an atheist was Benito Mussolini...

There are plenty of irreligious individuals who are moral, ethical, decent, and charitable people. Bill Gates donates millions upon millions of dollars yearly to those in extreme poverty around the world despite being irreligious and being on the record as stating he doubts there is any kind of god.

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Josh

Strange notions is s Catholic website (a very good one) started by Brandon Vogt. The article was good in my opinion and brought up interesting points. Shared it for discussion and to be a little provocative. Get the people going. Also maybe an atheist or two would like the article and browse others on the site. (Strange notions)

1 hour ago, Luigi said:

Josh - So you're a humanist, not a Catholic. That's fine. What do you want from us? Are you trying to convert us to your way of thinking? Do you want us to convert you to our way of thinking?

If you've found what you were looking for, why do you post to a Catholic board?

I'm still Catholic. One of those Catholics who sin really bad. One who just went to Confession last night and Saturday and the week before. Hope you've been good. Btw chill out a little bit. It's an article from a really good Catholic website that engages atheists and agnostics. They also  actually get traffic unlike this site lol

1 hour ago, dUSt said:

This is why people shoot up schools. 

Maybe or perhaps it's also becuase people love their guns more than children's safety and refuse to budge even a tad to adjust laws to make children safer. I'm glad being Catholic doesn't entail agreeing with you on everything lol Because you're very opinionated and I find myself disagreeing with you a lot. You started a cool website way back when but you're not the magisterium. With all that said I'm still a big fan. God bless.

Edited by Josh

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Luigi
13 minutes ago, Josh said:

Strange notions is s Catholic website (a very good one) started by Brandon Vogt. The article was good in my opinion and brought up interesting points. Shared it for discussion and to be a little provocative. Get the people going. Also maybe an atheist or two would like the article and browse others on the site. (Strange notions)

I'm still Catholic. One of those Catholics who sin really bad. One who just went to Confession last night and Saturday and the week before. Hope you've been good. Btw chill out a little bit. It's an article from a really good Catholic website that engages atheists and agnostics. They also  actually get traffic unlike this site lol

Okay. I thought you were using that article to tell us your beliefs.

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Josh
24 minutes ago, Luigi said:

Okay. I thought you were using that article to tell us your beliefs.

No I'm not but what if I was? I'm not welcome here if I don't think the same as you guys or believe in God? I agree with the article about the Old Testament issues. I think a lot of people do if they're honest. I don't draw the same conclusions as the author about God. God can still exist wether or not the Bible is inerrant. Either God exists or doesn't. And if God does he/she/it is not confined to a book or dogmas. With that said Jesus is my God and how I choose to view God in my life. It's through him how I have a relationship with my higher power. For others it's different.

Edited by Josh

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GreenScapularedHuman

Although not intended by the article's author, the title I think gives the illusion of a false dichotomy, that is that humanism (even secular humanism) is incompatible with Catholicism. I would agree that secular humanism moreover does have some significant modifications to Catholic belief/attitude moreover regarding 'dogma' but I don't think its too far of a bridge... To note I am a secular humanist.

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Miss Simon

Hey Josh!

What about this article jumps out to you? Seems like it is an account of his personal journey with his faith and finding out who he is as an individual. Some of the things he says definitely ring true in my mind but I must curious what type of discussion you wish to have. Maybe others are curious too which may be why they came in with the assumption that you posted this as a reflection of your own thoughts. 

One thing for me on a personal level is understanding the emotions conjured during certain instances. For example he talks about how the retreats would reduce the amount of food they ate and the sleep they got which would likely result in heightened cortisol levels in the body and make them feel their experiences more keenly.  There is definitely something to be said for vulnerability though and the role it plays in creating bonds between individuals that doesnt have anything to do with a sacrament or a religious ritual. 

But I do remember feeling similarly during the Easter Vigil many years ago after a long lent where I was particularly disciplined in fasting and eliminating certain things I enjoyed from my life in order to make sacrifices. The moment it was all over was very emotional just for those realizations alone but also because of the environment and music. I think those feelings are authentic but I disagree with the notion it comes from god and not the mental and emotional circumstances that coerce an emotional response. 

I also remember as a teen noticing the differences between adoration in a church and adoration in a mega gym during a Steubenville North conference. The number of peers falling over crying, speaking in tongues, and other such things was incredible during the conferences (where there was christian rock playing, the atmosphere was intense) but I never witnessed it during quiet adoration in a church or chapel. I also wondered why I wasn't experiencing those things but never questioned the influences of the surroundings as having an impact on conjuring certain emotions. 

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Josh
1 hour ago, Miss Simon said:

Hey Josh!

What about this article jumps out to you?

Hey how's it going? I like most of the articles and discussions at Strange Notions. Great website. 

This article I liked the journey he experienced and also his honesty on issues he had with faith. Some of it resonated with me. Where I think he went wrong is writing God off all together becuase of what he learned about the Bible and some of the stories.

One of the things I like and respect about being Catholic is its not just the Bible alone. As a Catholic I can have issues with how the book treated slavery. Or how it seems God is extremely violent and short fused in the OT. Or a bunch of other things. Yet I'm not asked to figure the Bible out on my own. I don't have to pretend to understand it completely and justify everything it says. I have the Church to help me and make sense of some of the stuff that's confusing in it.

I think it's a bad/stupid idea to write off God becuase you don't like the Bible. I read the whole thing at around 20. Had some very deep spiritual experiences durning  this time as well. The Bible enriched my faith and led me to understand God more deeply. But God is found everywhere in the world and not just contained to this book. He's found in science and everywhere else. So if the Bible is your excuse for being an atheist I don't think its a good one.

Edited by Josh

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Miss Simon

Hmm I think saying he wrote off god because he didnt like the bible is a bit oversimplifying his experience. He explains that he couldnt rationalize some of the stories because during his studies at the university he was unable to reconcile or support their historical existence elsewhere. And I think its fair to look at it from the flip side and say maybe its "bad/stupid" to believe in something without understanding why, would you agree? 

And considering using a physical item such as the bible as a reference for religious guidance is much more palpable than tradition passed down I think its fair for him to have taken the steps to examine it critically. The other half of catholic belief in the oral traditions is kind of like a very long line of telephone to the objective eye so I think its really hard to go on that for any concrete analysis. 

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Lilllabettt
2 hours ago, Miss Simon said:

 I think those feelings are authentic but I disagree with the notion it comes from god and not the mental and emotional circumstances that coerce an emotional response. 

On what basis do you separate the two?

I've heard atheists describe St Paul's experience on the road to Damascus as a hallucination.  If we gave him an fmri scan we'd see his brain light up the same way people do when they are hallucinating.  Ok... so Maybe it was? So what?

Have you ever read Harry Potter. Just because something is in your head doesnt mean it's not real. 

A natural explanation doesnt necessarily preclude divine activity.  Consider the "miracle" of birth. Theists, most of them, concede the natural processes involved in reproduction but this doesnt stop them from seeing conception and birth as divinely orchestrated events. 

So, what's your rationale for asserting that these are nonintersecting sets?

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