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Detroit Archdiocese reprimands priest after homily during teen's funeral sparks anger

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littlebell
14 minutes ago, Lilllabettt said:

Because Catholics are poorly formed they expect a eulogy at their funerals going over kind or funny things the dead person said and did and expressions of how important they were.

I agree. It seems that it is becoming increasingly common for many people  to want a "Celebration of Life" instead of a funeral.  Here's an interesting article published a few years ago on this issue:

http://thefederalist.com/2013/12/06/funeral-funeral-celebration-life-one-last-hurrah/

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Lilllabettt
16 minutes ago, Josh said:

That's cool. Like I said earlier I hope at least every other homily he preaches on the evil of all the priests who've sexually abused minors and little kids. How it's ruined these people's lives and pushed some to suicide. How it's made countless of people (victim and non victim) walk away from Catholicism all together. I hope he preaches just as passionately about the complete failure of the bishops cardinals and popes who have went to great lengths to cover all this up and try to save reputations. If you're going to preach the hard truths preach them all. Espically the ones I just mentioned. Since Jesus said it would be better to have a milestone hung around your neck and drowned in the sea than to be these men.

Why? 

You want to hear a homily about how nothing, even committing the sin of child rape, can separate someone from the love of Christ?

Give me a break.

No prayers for you, kid. The priesthood is in crisis and the optics Would Be Bad. 

 

15 minutes ago, littlebell said:

I agree. It seems that it is becoming increasingly common for many people  to want a "Celebration of Life" instead of a funeral.  Here's an interesting article published a few years ago on this issue:

http://thefederalist.com/2013/12/06/funeral-funeral-celebration-life-one-last-hurrah/

Lame.

Appropriate in part, during an after party or something. 

But in place of a funeral mass is anti-christ. 

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BarbaraTherese
17 minutes ago, Lilllabettt said:

You want to hear a homily about how nothing, even committing the sin of child rape, can separate someone from the love of Christ?

Give me a break.

Father paraphrasing mentioned the following quotation in his homily and spoke in an all embracing manner about it:

Quote

"38 And I am convinced that nothing can ever separate us from God’s love. Neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither our fears for today nor our worries about tomorrow—not even the powers of hell can separate us from God’s love. 39 No power in the sky above or in the earth below—indeed, nothing in all creation will ever be able to separate us from the love of God that is revealed in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans Ch8)

I went to a Dominican college where nuns were still the sole teachers pre V2.  We were taught that the sin against The Holy Spirit is to hold that there is an unforgivable sin.  It is pride that asserts that one has done something so terrible, not even God can forgive it.

The bold format in the post above, was not my doing.  The computer decided for bold and bold it had to be.  The computer would not change its mind as edit had timed out. :) 

Edited by BarbaraTherese

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Lilllabettt
11 minutes ago, BarbaraTherese said:

Father paraphrasing mentioned the following quotation in his homily and spoke in an all embracing manner about it:

I went to a Dominican college where nuns were still the sole teachers pre V2.  We were taught that the sin against The Holy Spirit is to hold that there is an unforgivable sin.  It is pride that asserts that one has done something so terrible, not even God can forgive it.

The bold format in the post above, was not my doing.  The computer decided for bold and bold it had to be.  The computer would not change its mind as edit had timed out. :) 

What's your point??

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BarbaraTherese
Quote

Lillabett: "What's your point??"

My point is that nothing can separate us from The Love of Christ, not even child rape.  The rapist has withdrawn his/her love from God, but God has not withdrawn His Love from him/her...........as St Paul implies in the quote I gave from Romans Ch8.

 

The following is what Father said in his homily, paraphrasing Romans Ch8 :

TEXT OF HOMILY" Truly, none of us can stand before God on our own. We all need Christ to intercede for us, to plead our case. And here's the good news: Christ has never lost a case!
What will separate us from the love of Christ? St. Paul answers that question with a display of words that cover everything he can think of in so little space. Not death or life, not angels or principalities, not present things or future things, not powers or height or depth or any other creature will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

What did St. Paul leave out of that list? Nothing. He did not list suicide, but he did not list murder or gossip or   greed either. He covered all of those things in the final flurry of words that includes anything else in all creation. No deed is too evil to  be beyond the forgiveness of Christ.  "

Edited by BarbaraTherese

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Lilllabettt
8 minutes ago, BarbaraTherese said:

My point is that nothing can separate us from The Love of Christ, not even child rape.  The rapist has withdrawn his/her love from God, but God has not withdrawn His Love from him/her...........as St Paul implies in the quote I gave from Romans Ch8.

Ok but are you following the discussion??

Josh wants to be sure this priest is preaching "all" the hard truths. 

That child rape is a disgusting crime worthy of milestones is not a "hard" truth. The "hardest" truth would be that God does love and forgive child rapists and we must pray and hope that we will find them standing next to us in heaven.

Josh does not really want to hear that. He thinks the priesthood has lost its moral authority and therefore he does not want to hear about sin from priests. 

Let's hope priests dont take Josh's advice and decide to quit hearing confessions or preaching on the reality of hell and damnation.  Dead people need prayers whether a priest offers them or not.

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BarbaraTherese
44 minutes ago, BarbaraTherese said:
  59 minutes ago, Lilllabettt said:

You want to hear a homily about how nothing, even committing the sin of child rape, can separate someone from the love of Christ?

Give me a break.

I was commenting on your statement to Josh as above.   HERE

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Josh
31 minutes ago, Lilllabettt said:

Ok but are you following the discussion??

Josh wants to be sure this priest is preaching "all" the hard truths. 

That child rape is a disgusting crime worthy of milestones is not a "hard" truth. The "hardest" truth would be that God does love and forgive child rapists and we must pray and hope that we will find them standing next to us in heaven.

Josh does not really want to hear that. He thinks the priesthood has lost its moral authority and therefore he does not want to hear about sin from priests. 

Let's hope priests dont take Josh's advice and decide to quit hearing confessions or preaching on the reality of hell and damnation.  Dead people need prayers whether a priest offers them or not.

You're a little off on what Josh thinks. I see where you're coming from. I don't think all priests have lost their moral authority. Nor do I think they're beyond forgiveness. I personally hope hell is empty and everyone gets all the evil tortured out of them in purgatory. If the priest in this case is going to preach what he preached after giving the dad the impression he wouldn't harp on the suicide aspect of the death then I hope he is just as bold calling out how much the heiarchy of the Church has let every one down all the way up to the popes. It's not easy for priests to do this cause I never hear them doing it.  And no idea where you get the impression I don't want priest's to talk about sin or hell. That's not the case. So if you sincerely think that you're wrong. God Bless hope you're well and having a good night.

Edited by Josh

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Lilllabettt
5 minutes ago, BarbaraTherese said:

I was commenting on your statement to Josh as above.   HERE

:facepalm:

i REALIZE that. 

My question was rhetorical. Obviously.  Plain as the nose on my face.

Let me spell it out. If Josh comes back and says "no I dont want to hear the hard truth about rapists being forgiven because it's not true" then you can quote Romans to him and it will make sense.

Quoting it to me when you did, doesn't make any sense in the conversation. We are not arguing about whether rapists deserve mercy at this point. That might come later. We are currently arguing about Josh supposedly wanting priests to preach "all" the hard truths. I'm pointing out that this is a fake request.  He doesnt mean it. It's just a statement intended to deride priests as hypocrites and undermine their authority to denounce sin. 

Just now, Josh said:

You're a little off on what Josh thinks. I see where you're coming from. I don't think all priests have lost their moral authority. Nor do I think they're beyond forgiveness. I personally hope hell is empty and everyone gets all the evil tortured out of them in purgatory. If the priest in this case is going to preach what he preached after giving the dad the impression he wouldn't harp on the suicide aspect of the death then I hope he is just as bold calling out how much the heiarchy of the Church has let every one down. It's not easy for priests to do this cause I never hear them doing it.  And no idea where you get the impression I don't want priest's to talk about sin or hell. That's not the case. So if you sincerely think that you're wrong. God Bless hope you're well and having a good night.

God bless, I'm well. Currently eating a bowl of raisin bran crunch so alls good.

It just seems like you dont want to hear about it from priests. Whenever they say something you dont like this comes up. Or, I know I've read you saying you feel less embarrassed going to confession because of the scandals. Like, why? Not that you should be embarrassed to go to confession.  But many priests have nothing to feel guilty about re the scandals. And they shouldn't feel unable or embarrassed to preach the truth either.  

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BarbaraTherese
3 minutes ago, Lilllabettt said:

i REALIZE that. 

I was following the discussion since you raised the subject.

Going by what Josh has posted HERE I feel that I was in touch with his point of view in the main.

 

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Josh
44 minutes ago, Lilllabettt said:

God bless, I'm well. Currently eating a bowl of raisin bran crunch so alls good.

It just seems like you dont want to hear about it from priests. Whenever they say something you dont like this comes up. Or, I know I've read you saying you feel less embarrassed going to confession because of the scandals. Like, why? Not that you should be embarrassed to go to confession.  But many priests have nothing to feel guilty about re the scandals. And they shouldn't feel unable or embarrassed to preach the truth either.  

Love Rasian Bran. Haven't tried the crunch.

I don't mind hearing it from priest's. I have a good priest at my parish who talks about mortal sin ect I'm all for it. Yeah I think child paedophilia is one of the worst evils out there. But I'm just as disturbed or even more about the continued cover-up of it that doesn't stop. It just continues and continues. All the way up to the Pope. The 2 before Francis as well. Not saying it's beyond forgiveness or anything like that but it bothers me. Extremely. To the point it tempts me to leave Catholicism. Not going to do that but it's a temptation.

I'm embarrassed/nervous to go to Confession sometimes because I do evil things. It's really difficult to tell the evil things you do to a complete stranger when they tell you none of the evil things they do. It's even more difficult if they snap at you or respond in a confrontational way. Like I said before this has only happened once. So my experiences in Confession have been good. But it's still tough to do. If I was going in there with the scrupulous stuff people at Catholic answers do then it might be easier. But that's not the case with me. I confess messed up stuff. I should stop doing these things but I'm not a good person. If im being honest it's easier to go to Confession when I know what the Church is guilty of and to what extent. I know I'm wrong for thinking like this but it's how I feel. I'm very disturbed how the abuse of minors and kids could be handled like this for so long all the way up to the top.

I definitely don't think innocent priests have anything to feel guilty or embarrassed about. Or Bishops or Cardinals. The ones who truly knew nothing about what was happening have nothing to be ashamed of. If I've expressed that tgey do in the past I apologize. But the ones who are guilty and nothing happens to them. The ones who are promoted to Cardinal and put in charge of handling the procedures in protecting youth from this happening (aka Mccarick) they need called out by good priest's. Like the good priest here who called out the kid for taking his life and how he let everyone down. I hope this priest has the courage to speak out against his fellow priests bishops cardinals and popes who have also let people down. Who have led people to kill themselves and leave the Church and lose faith in God. I don't think the innocent priest should feel any guilt at all. And its not virtual signaling when they call out the guilty . Just like it's not virtual signaling when the priest calls out this kids suicide and the evil of it. People in the pews need to hear that innocent priests are upset and bothered by the abuse and continued cover-up that never ends all the way up to the popes. Just like they need to hear how suicide is wrong and never justified. That's my view at least.

Edited by Josh

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PhuturePriest
5 hours ago, Lilllabettt said:

Idk. Did you read the text of the homily? I think this family is high-conflict. Which,  probably I would be too if my child killed himself. But reading what was printed from the homily, it doesn't seem cruel to me at all. Knowing the churchs teaching as I do I would appreciate it if someone in authority acknowledged my loved ones suicide and in the same breath assured me it didnt separate them from Gods love.

That said.

Once upon a time the purpose of the funeral mass was clear. The archdiocese in its response, suggests the purpose is to communicate Gods closeness to those who mourn. But that's nonsense. Comforting the living is a side thing. The mass is FOR the dead. 

Eulogies are not supposed to take place during mass. 

Just saying, I'll be really pissed if people at my funeral just go on about how great i was. Like visit from purgatory pissed. 

 

Having lived in Detroit, I can assure you that the archdiocese's statements reflect the whole of their mentality and ethos.

On the one hand, the archdiocese is afraid of rocking the boat, especially after all of the negative press in the media for the Church in general. It's understandable. But, knowing the archdiocese, they would have said this no matter the context of press, so I'm not going to give them that much of a pass.

I think the priest made an excellent homily for well-catechized Catholics who know what a funeral is for. Sadly, the opposite is what should be taken for granted, and I think he should have taken that into account and made at least a primer on the purpose of a funeral Mass. I think the problem wasn't necessarily the content, but the lack of padded wording. It's likely that the priest is not a personality who finds this necessary, which is not bad or wrong, but there are those who are more sensitive and worry when the absence of more comforting language is found (not that his message wasn't, but the wording itself).

The whole situation, of course, is unfortunate. That the funeral Mass was needed, that the family does not appear to understand the purpose of a funeral, that the priest perhaps didn't read or prepare the family as well as he should have, and that the family took such offense to bring it to the news. It could be that the family is high-conflict, it could be that the priest is insensitive, it could be that they wouldn't have been comforted no matter the message, etc., etc. If nothing else, I think this just underscores the problem with hyper sensationalizing everything and bringing it all to the media. It could have been resolved on the local level, but everyone today feels the need to let everyone know that x did y and it super offended me.

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chrysostom

Incredibly beautiful homily.

It makes me think though. My family would also be offended if the priest suggested that they pray for me after death because it goes against their beliefs. Not even sure I’d get a proper funeral Mass. I’d still want the priest to do it though.

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CatherineM

If the family didn’t want it publicly known their son committed suicide, making this viral kind of seems counter. 

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