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BarbaraTherese

Cardinal Pell - The Grounds for His Appeal

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BarbaraTherese

It is becoming difficult to discern if a particular source is reliable and not completely biased in one direction or another.  Insofar as I am aware, The Financial Review is a reliable source, while I keep in mind that we are all biased, research would seem to indicate.

Financial Review: "Is George Pell Innocent?"

The above title is a bit of a concern possibly indicating bias.  I must admit after reading the article, I am inclined to think that I just might be correct.  It is very difficult to be sure.  Bias towards +Pell's innocence might mean that facts speaking to his innocence are reported in an article, rather than facts that speak to his guilt.

Be whatever as it may, my Faith is in Jesus.  If Cardinal Pell is innocent and falsely jailed, then one would hope he would have his own Faith in Jesus. He would be at an impasse with no alternative but to suffer whatever he is to suffer, including the decision out of The Vatican.  He cannot go over nor around nor under the impasse - he can only walk through it, endure it, with Faith and trust in Jesus.

If he is guilty, then he will justly do his sentence and whatever the Vatican decides.......may he fully repent and save his soul I pray along with daily prayer for victims and all deeply affected by this crisis.   Again, be all that as it may, thank God that it has come into the light - all of it I hope.

I am praying too that those reforms in His Church needed by Jesus will be effected - and very hopefully, very soon.

____________________

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http://www.iccdinstitute.org/home/impasse-and-the-dark-night/

"Impasse and The Dark Night"(Author Sr. Constance Fitzgerald OCD)

IMPASSE
By impasse, I mean that there is no way out of, no way around, no rational escape from, what imprisons one, no possibilities in the situation. In a true impasse, every normal manner of acting is brought to a standstill, and ironically, impasse is experienced not only in the problem itself but also in any solution rationally attempted. Every logical solution remains unsatisfying, at the very least. The whole life situation suffers a depletion, has the word limits written upon it. Dorothee Soelle describes it as “unavoidable suffering,” an apt symbol of which is physical imprisonment, with its experience of being squeezed into a confined space. Any movement out, any next step, is canceled, and the most dangerous temptation is to give up, to quit, to surrender to cynicism and despair, in the face of the disappointment, disenchantment, hopelessness, and loss of meaning that encompass one.

It is not difficult to imagine how such attitudes affect self-image and sense of worth and turn back on the person or group to engender a sense of failure, to reinforce a realization-not always exact–that their own mistakes have contributed to the ambiguity.
Moreover, intrinsic to the experience of impasse is the impression and feeling of rejection and lack of assurance from those on whom one counts. At the deepest levels of impasse, one sees the support systems on which one has depended pulled out from under one and asks if anything, if anyone, is trustworthy. Powerlessness overtakes the person or group caught in impasse and opens into the awareness that no understandable defense is possible. This is how impasse looks to those who are imprisoned within it. It is the experience of disintegration, of deprivation of worth, and it has many faces, personal and societal.

 

 

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BarbaraTherese

I have seen a video of Victorian Premier, Daniel Andrews, stating that the government was looking closely at the "Melbourne Response" set up by Cardinal Pell when he was Archbishop of Melbourne.  Mr. Andrews stated that the capped amount and documents signed by victims waiving right to civil action seemed "out of balance" and the government was looking at these specifically.  I was blocked from posting the video.

If the government does waive the documents signed, then undoubtedly the crisis in Australia will worsen.  To my mind, the important matter is that the whole truth sees the light of day.  Again, to my mind, because of these abuse scandals, The Church ought to be struggling to pay for food, water and electricity.  The Church should be bankrupt.  What price a child?

 

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https://www.9news.com.au/2019/03/14/14/21/news-melbourne-premier-praises-chief-justice-calls-on-catholic-church-to-focus-on-wellbeing-of-victimsThe government is actively considering the current state of the “Melbourne Response,” a scheme established by then Archbishop of Melbourne George Pell.  

“To my mind and to the view of the Attorney General and in light of these most recent matters, the intersection of the Melbourne response and capped pay outs and the operation of the national redress scheme doesn’t sit quite right,” Mr Andrews said.

“There may be a need for us to intervene there.”

Pell was the architect of the Melbourne Response, a compensation scheme victims’ advocate argue was designed to minimise the legal and financial liabilities of the Catholic Church.

Under the scheme, compensation payments were significantly capped (with an average payout of $36,100) and victims were forced to sign a deed of settlement waiving their right to take civil action.

 

 

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Josh

It's ******* cringe worthy to hear Pee Wee Herman, Patrick Madrid, Patrick Coffin, and many others proclaim Pells innocence and paint the jury as liars who threw the case. And the victim as a fraud. I can barely handle the leaders of the Church protecting and covering this evil. But when I then have to hear lay catholics defend it as well im this close to joining a new church. And not looking back and sleeping very well at night.

 

Edited by Josh

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cruciatacara

@Josh It has caused me a lot of anger and frustration as well, watching as Catholics try to question the jury because they simply can't believe - or don't want to believe that Pell could do such a thing. I know the man so I can accept the verdict of the jury a lot easier I suppose. I try to understand how confused some Catholics must be, but denial isn't the answer. This isn't the first time there has been a shadow over Pell about child abuse, but this is the first and only time it has gone to trial. The first jury was so conflicted that some of them were crying when they announced that they couldn't reach a verdict. To me, it is astounding that the second jury voted unanimously to convict because it is such a contentious issue. But that also tells me that the victim's testimony utterly convinced them that he was telling the truth. 

I think a lot of Catholics have come to accept that there are pedophile priests but a pedophile Cardinal? They either can't or won't accept that such a thing is possible. I am sure there is also fear involved because if they admit that Pell is guilty, then they might begin to question their faith as well. It takes a brave person to admit the wrongdoing and yet stay strong in one's faith.

One of the things that I can't forgive Pell (and some of the rest of the hierarchy) for is the cover-ups. Pell did everything he could with the 'Melbourne Response' to cover up the abuse in Melbourne to protect the church. To me, he should have been protecting the victims. But it makes more sense now that Pell has been convicted as one of the abusers.

Don't feel alone, Josh, you aren't the only one who feels as you do. These are tough times.

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BarbaraTherese

What has happened, Josh, is absolutely horrific - hardly words sufficient to describe.  But we remain The Church Jesus promised would withstand Hell's attacks "the gates of Hell shall not prevail".  And this is an attack by Hell for sure.  If anything is a test of our Faith and trust in Jesus, this is certainly a major  one.  But it is not Jesus who has let us down.  It is not He who has sexually abused little children.  It is not He who has tried to cover up the crimes.

For a very long time now, years, my Faith has been in Jesus alone.  Not in our leadership while I acknowledge that we have more faithful good priests than the other kind.

I can no longer walk down the street proud to be Catholic in a human sense.  That is a personal test of my own.

"Put not your trust in princes,

nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.

 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish."

(Psalm 146 - a Psalm in the Divine Office)

Edited by BarbaraTherese

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Gary david

There is much to be agreed with here. I have felt the same due to circustances within the church from the top down. And is difficult to walk with pride. I used to but not any more. Jesus is the cornerstone of the church, He never changes, unlike man, so as you I trust in Jesus. None of this has lessened my faith, if anything it has strenghened it. I am more than certain there are many good and faithful priests, but to be honest I dont look up to them with the reverence i used to only because now I dont know who is who. Thats a problem that I must wrestle with becuase of my human nature. I must not judge, I know that. I guess i need to process all that has happened. This has been hard for me to fathom. To be a catholic from birth, things have changed so much that it is hard to put it all into proper respective.

  Well this is how I feel about this.  God bless.....

Edited by Gary david
Typo

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BarbaraTherese
1 hour ago, Gary david said:

There is much to be agreed with here. I have felt the same due to circustances within the church from the top down. And is difficult to walk with pride. I used to but not any more. Jesus is the cornerstone of the church, He never changes, unlike man, so as you I trust in Jesus. None of this has lessened my faith, if anything it has strenghened it. I am more than certain there are many good and faithful priests, but to be honest I dont look up to them with the reverence i used to only because now I dont know who is who. Thats a problem that I must wrestle with becuase of my human nature. I must not judge, I know that. I guess i need to process all that has happened. This has been hard for me to fathom. To be a catholic from birth, things have changed so much that it is hard to put it all into proper respective.

  Well this is how I feel about this.  God bless.....

Once upon a time, one could say with pride that I am a practising Catholic, nowadays I am a little tense in stating it because of the abuse crisis and the reaction I sometimes get.  I thought your use of the term "proper perspective" was an excellent and apt use of words. 

It is the really sad and illogical conclusion of some, that the abuse crisis condemns the whole Catholic Church and all Catholics.  It is illogical and yet understandable.  But far more than any tension I might feel, my heart goes out to our very good priests.  Most of all to the victims of this crisis.  I have concluded that I can offer anything I might suffer as a very tiny act of reparation for abused children.  To ask with sadness and humility that they might be somehow comforted.  I think if we have even an ounce of empathy, to put ourselves into the shoes of those children and something of the sickening revulsion of their experience comes home.

I am 73 years of age and pre and post Vatican II - a Catholic from  birth - and indeed how very much things have changed and with much thankfulness not everything is negative.  It is quite understandable that this crisis is hard to process and I need to give myself time to do so (a journey) including that I might feel differently about our priests than how I used to feel, and that needs time too.  I have a mixture of emotions difficult to untangle including sadness for our priests.   Much earlier in my life, I had priests and religious on very high pedestals - I have learnt to have the vocation on very high pedestals but not necessarily those called to these vocations.  They are just as human as the rest of us and I have learnt to let them be human but certainly not abusers of children.  They have the great Graces of their vocation, but how they respond is their quite human choice.  One of the reasons I chose to leave monastic life in my forties was because I refused to regard myself as somehow intrinsically uniquely blest and different, more special, than all the rest 

"Does he thank the servant because he did what he was told? So you also, when you have done everything commanded of you, should say, ‘We are unworthy servants; we have only done our duty." (Luke Chapter 17)

I regard every single person as chosen by God for something special, unique, and granted all the Graces necessary to fulfill that call and vocation and no matter the vocation, no matter the duties of the vocation.  "All is Grace" (St Therese of Lisieux)

To my way of thought, judging others is assessing and passing sentence.  However, I do need to assess where persons of all rank fit into my life and that is all it is, assessment related to my life - without passing any sort of moral judgement.

Our Lady, Untier of Knots, please pray for us all.

Sacred Heart of Jesus, please grant us Grace to process all as You would have us process.  Amen.

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Gary david

How long did you live a monastic life?

  Didnt Jesus say to leave his priests alone or His elect? I cant recall where i read that, maybe sister Faustinas diary, im not sure. Jesus said He will judge them accordingly. They hold much responsibility regarding the faith and souls of so many. I can see why, especially now. I have also stated to others how difficult it must be for any catholic priest of true faith to practice at this time. I know how I feel about whats going on, I cannot even imagine what it might be like for them. I also now wonder how long things like this have been going on. Maybe i shouldnt even go there but that thought has gone through my mind and most likely am not alone in this. 

  Well it is good to be able to share our thoughts regarding this in a way that we can learn and share thoughts and feelings about this. I consider this to be a blessing.

  Thank you for sharing your thoughts. God bless you......

 

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BarbaraTherese

I was in monastic life in my forties for a very short time indeed.  It was long enough for me.  I left not because of monastic life per se which I still highly treasure, rather I left partly because of the formation program in the community I entered and other matters important to me personally related to that particular community.  In short, I had no vocation to monastic life as lived in that community.

Indeed, God will judge us all, including priests, in due time.  Meanwhile, we are right in my book to question leadership on earth of The Church - in view of what has happened and is happening and has been happening it seems for over 40 years that we know about.  In my estimation, we would be very wrong not to question leadership and to ask for honesty, straightforwardness and transparency, which to date, I don't think even now we are getting from leadership.  It has to be a dialogue exchange in which both leadership and laity are willing to come out of dialogue in the process of change.  Partly, the abuse crisis has come about because of leadership.  It is not a problem within the laity but of our priesthood including in religious life.  The solution will involve laity I think.  Clericalism which is being blamed for the crisis has two faces.  The first is how those in Holy Orders regard themselves personally.  The second face is a problem flowing from the first and how generally we think about those in Holy Orders.

I don't think even now leadership 'gets' our anxiety........for ourselves and for our children, for the future of The Church which will involve our children.  They just don't get it.  It is not neurotic anxiety but more so existential anxiety.

Quote

 

1 Peter, Chapter 5: "So humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time. Cast all your worries upon him because he cares for you.Be sober and vigilant. Your opponent the devil is prowling around like a roaring lion looking for (someone) to devour. Resist him, steadfast in faith, knowing that your fellow believers throughout the world undergo the same sufferings.

The God of all grace who called you to his eternal glory through Christ (Jesus) will himself restore, confirm, strengthen, and establish you after you have suffered a little. To him be dominion forever. Amen.

 

It is indeed a blessing in my book to be able to share our honest thoughts............an example of the internet being used for quite positive and good reasons.

May The Good Lord bless you and yours also, Gary...........Regards - Barb

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Gary david

Hello. I just read this article on cardinal Pell. After reading i again just sat and reflected on this and again am dumbfounded as to how these things have come to be. It must be me because I find it most difficult to rationalize and understand human nature. I always thought that for an individual to hold such a position something such as this would simply not be possible. I stand being quite wrong once again. It doesent seem to matter what ones position might be, we are all subject to our own human nature. Actually I find life to be quite frightening to know these horrors lie in wait for some innocent souls. Well im certain.that I am never going to figure it out which is why I give so much to God. We were all born as tiny innocent babies and somewheres  along the way and some of us have been given to do monstrous things to ourselves  and others. 

  Im certain i am not saying anything you dont already know. 

Well on a brighter note, we woke up, were still alive to see another sunrise! And can still say.............May God bless you!

Edited by Gary david
Typos

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BarbaraTherese

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CLERICALISM - WHAT IS IT?

Called to service as lowly servants of all: "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and the great ones make their authority over them felt. But it shall not be so among you. Rather, whoever wishes to be great among you shall be your servant; whoever wishes to be first among you shall be your slave. Just so, the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve and to give his life as a ransom for many." (Matthew 20:20-28)

_______________

My thoughts only: You would not be by very far, Gary, someone rocked to the core about these abuse scandals.  It seems that clericalism has been pinpointed as a probably cause.

An aspect of "clericalism" we as Laity need to consider is that while the vocation of Holy Orders and religious life are beautiful vocations of the highest honor, those called to these vocations remain just as human as the rest of us, prone to temptation and both resisting it and at times falling victim to it.  We are all quite fallible and weak human beings and in a way it has not been fair to those called to our higher vocations to rob them of their humanity and placing them with the angels, beyond all sin and temptation.  Those called to these vocations are not called because they are special in some way - it is the vocation that is special.  It is a mystery why some are called and others not.  In fact, I read somewhere that God might call a person to the priesthood or religious life because it is the only way they will save their souls.  "O, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable His judgments, and untraceable His ways!" (Romans Ch 11)

We do need to understand, I think, that with a call and vocation from God comes all the Graces necessary to faithfully live out that call and vocation to the highest sanctity.  And that applies to all of God's Calls and vocations.

Every last one of us is unique with a quite unique job to do in building up the Mystical Body of Christ on earth - a job and role no other person can complete.  And as God calls each person to here or to there in the Mystical Body, He grants all Graces necessary to complete that role and work even to great holiness.  We see this in the lives of our saints and the many roles and vocations in the life of The Church they have undertaken and completed to great holiness and sanctity..

It is not easy at all, it is a journey to separate the person from the vocation.  To have the vocation on the highest of pedestals but to understand that those called remain quite human despite the great Graces granted to them.  Anyway, I did not find the quest easy at all.

The other aspect of "clericalism" involves those called to these vocations - they need to grasp that they are no better than any other baptised person, or even unbaptised for that matter.  It is their vocation that lifts them to what could be called a high estate where all honor and glory is to God and His Grace, not to the person only and alone.    With those great Graces granted, much more is going to be demanded of them.  With a vocation to Orders or religious life, I would think it would really humble a person and with a sense of great responsibility and accountability.  Mind you, we who are baptised into The Catholic Church have been given much more than we could ever deserve.

" From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; 

and from him who has been entrusted with much,

even more will be demanded."

(Luke Chapter 12)

It is all only my two cents worth and I think we are all going to have hard work to do, a journey to undertake, in addressing the causes of these terrible scandals.  But the Good Lord and His Grace will be with us all the way.  When these scandals became public, I have had a very personal sense of failure and confusion.  I pray for our priests and religious, all in consecrated life. 

........and God's Blessing to you also, Gary, with His Peace and His Joy in all things...........

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BarbaraTherese

 

"The enemy is within the gates;

it is with our own luxury, our own folly, our own criminality

that we have to contend."

Marcus Tullius Cicero

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Gary david

I thank you for taking the time to write this reply. The words of people can be a blessing or a curse depending on what you accept. I accept your words because they are not just yours but of Gods, and are a reminder that we are all Gods children. Just to have you know i will never lose any respect for any priest, clergy or anyone that have given their to live for Jesus. I always have and always will feel a deep joy and appreciation for them having devoted their lives, first for Jesus and for us. And if any of them have any different intentions other than these then God  can deal with them. Who am I to judge a soul anyway. In all that has been going on in the church, judgment is a temptation, but will not succumb to it. I will hold my faith and respect for our  church regardless of what else may happen becuse through all this clutter I still see Jesus in the tabernacle, the conerstone to everything. That is why we must always trust in Jesus because if we do He will always get us through and also keep our minds thinking as He would have us think.

Again I thank you so much for your words. Another day has passed so I ask for Gods blessings upon you. Good nite untill next time.......

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BarbaraTherese

Thank you for your really beautiful and inspirational post, Gary.  I am stumbling along trying to find my way through all that has happened and is happening.  As St Mary of The Cross MacKillop (our first Australian saint) said:  "Do what you can and leave the rest to God" and that is all I can do.  Sometimes in any journey at all it might be two steps back before one takes three steps forward.......or so it is with me.  As I allow myself to be human faulted and weak, it is what I owe to all my brothers and sisters of any rank in The Church whatsoever.  We share a common humanity.

22 minutes ago, Gary david said:

through all this clutter I still see Jesus in the tabernacle, the cornerstone to everything

You have said similar in a few posts and thank you for saying it.  You have said it all!

 

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