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Gary david

Bad news from the phillipines

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BarbaraTherese

A quite disturbed and violent man it seems.  A dreadful time for The Church and good priests as we struggle to come to terms with the terrible things that have happened (and all the children who have suffered and are continuing to suffer).  Prayer for the Philippines.

It is terrible, but The Church is being judged by the many by the terrible things priests have done.  Far more are good people and good priests - and these are being 'swept under the carpet'.  It is a sort of cover up of goodness - goodness which still exists in the greater majority of Catholics and Catholic priests.

The Church (as hierarchy)  has not done itself any favors (rather the complete opposite) by covering up, or attempting to cover up, evil.  The Church lacked and is lacking transparency.  Well is it said that  the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing (Edmund Burke).  But what on earth can we do when there is no transparency, no sharing openly of the truth, when we do not know what is really happening and actually has happened insofar as leadership is concerned - other than when another scandal breaks about a priest, bishop or cardinal.  And even then rather often we cannot be sure that we do know the truth surrounding each accused, crime and criminal.

 

 

Edited by BarbaraTherese

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Gary david

Hi. Your right. How can we know. Our responsibility is not to oversee the church. All we are expected to do is support our church and attend and honor its laws. Well things are far worse than I thought, I can tell you that much. Each day that passes brings more bad news. What shame as you said for all the faithful that have done nothing wrong. Just bearing the title of being a catholic will bring them all sorts of suffering. Seeing that these things have already been ser in motion all we can do is watch all of this unfold and pray.

  May God bless us all......

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BarbaraTherese

 

2 hours ago, Gary david said:

Our responsibility is not to oversee the church. All we are expected to do is support our church and attend and honor its laws.

I don't quite know what you mean by the above, Gary, and so have made an assumption and my apologies if I am incorrect, which I think I might very well be.

It is part of our responsibility and accountability to (in a sense) 'oversee The Church'.  Much more is going to be expected of us than to support and attend The Church, honor its laws.   The Laity is an important state and vocation and a whole document was written by St. Pope John Paul II Christifideles Laici "On The Vocation and Mission of The Laity in The Church and The World".  http://w2.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/apost_exhortations/documents/hf_jp-ii_exh_30121988_christifideles-laici.html

The above document is an important read for all lay people who desire to take their baptism, Jesus and His Gospel,very seriously.

At baptism, we are anointed as priest, prophet and king.  How these baptismal roles are lived out in The Church and in the world will be according to one's own call and vocation to take up a particular role (vocation) in The Church for the world.

Quoting Bishop Barron: "The key to the renewal of our society is a recovery of the deepest meaning of baptism, to become priestly, prophetic, and kingly people."

Quote

He (Bishop Barron) has written an article: "Priest Prophet and King"  https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/column/priest-prophet-and-king-2818 

Excerpt: " Most of the avatars of secularism would accept religion as a personal preoccupation, something along the lines of a hobby.  But such an attenuated spirituality has nothing to do with a robustly Biblical sense of religion.  On the Catholic reading, religious people—the baptized—come forth boldly and publicly and are more than willing to govern, to be kings, out of religious conviction.  If you are looking for examples of what I’m describing here, look no further than William Lloyd Garrison, Dorothy Day, Martin Luther King and Fulton Sheen. 

Baptized kings who refuse to reign are like a hilltop city covered in clouds."

In today's world, as a lay person, I have to ask myself: "What is all wrong up there at the top?  How has it all come to this terrible time?  Why?" (i.e. in our leadership, our priesthood and hierarchy)

Possibly all I will be able to do in a practical sense is next to nothing because of the way our Church has been structured and the consciousness we have as Catholics - and I believe that both need to change i.e. the structure and the consciousness.

May God's Will be done on earth, as it is in Heaven.

 

Edited by BarbaraTherese

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NeuInstalliert

While I personally hold the belief that all child molesters should be punished by death, it is obvious the president of the Philippines is only saying this to use as a foot against the Catholic church. Sad times. 

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BarbaraTherese

From what I have read of Duterte, he is a violent man not only in words but literally.  He has said some things that really rocked me.

I have wondered why a predominantly Catholic country like the Philippines would vote in someone like Duterte for their president.  I came across an interesting religious/political assessment on the Philippines here: https://www.bostonglobe.com/ideas/2018/12/20/what-religious-voters-want-definitely-not-piety/2Em4UQxp8K314tIIlXG7YO/story.html

The Boston Globe seems to be reliable and rates well for factual reporting.  https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/boston-globe/

 

"You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste,

with what can it be seasoned?

It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot."

(Matthew Chapter 5)

 

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Gary david

Hi Barbara. What was trying to say is that there wasent much we could about the scandal. We cant watch the priests or the vatican as to what they were doing. I do sometimes get so worked up over this I end up not getting my point across. Sorry about that.

  Ok for now. Talk to you later. God bless.....

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BarbaraTherese

I strongly suspected I was wrong, Gary.   I very much agree that there isn't much practical we can do as Laity as things are - but part of our duty is to pray for The Church and that means all the intentions of The Church.  We can do that and without prayer, nothing can be done at all.   But I am preaching to the converted again! :) 

 Now and then the scandals really get me down in the dumps too.  I haven't got angry to date but I don't think that is a good thing of necessity.  Depression, that down in the dumps feeling, can sometimes mean anger turned inwards.  I can see my part in this whole mess, this dreadful tragedy of suffering borne by others.

God bless

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Gary david

Hi. Well for one thing you cant remind someone to pray enough times and I appreciate the reminder. And yes I do believe that prayers are the answer and also important is being a living example to others. As to how I feel about all these scandals? You know Im not sure. I am also not angry. I would have to say I am very much troubled. I found that last night I had difficulty finding sleep. My mind was thinking all sorts of things concerning the church, some of which were not pleasant at all. I still suspect that there is something far more sinister going on here and it nags at me. I think that because I was always involved with the church and always held such a deep respect for the mass, the priests, the nuns and everything about it. Now later in life I find that confusion is taking its place. 

  So with that said, I need to find my place against all of this. I think i have said it before. I need to look through all of this and see Jesus still there waiting. I also feel a great sympathy for all those who have devoted their life to God only to find themselves involved in such a terrible situation. I can only hope and pray that they do not succumb to despair  and fall away. Many, many things to consider.

  Well again I have spoken my mind. Hope things are fine with you.

  God bless.....☺

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BarbaraTherese

I have been having nightmares t00 and since the scandal with Cardinal Pell broke and he was found guilty - I am waking up from them in the early hours of the morning.  This morning it was 4am I woke and woke from a nightmare all I can recall now is the face of President Putin but that is because he is a person I do not trust either.  I didn't connect it to the scandal with Cardinal Pell until I read your post and then reflected when my nightmares began.

This is very unusual for me, my sleep pattern is from 8 - 10 hours guaranteed .......and I rarely if ever dream.  I have been having nightmares since Cardinal Pell was found guilty, around that time anyway.

I have no idea what is actually happening and I don't think that we can because The Church is not an open book and transparent - i.e. we cannot rely on it from The Church.  Undoubtedly these things are affecting those of us not directly related to the scandals but are practising Catholics and so indirectly related.

I would be far more acceptable to those around me if I said I was leaving The Church because of the scandals.  Not easy being Catholic just now.  What is happening with non Catholics around me seems to be they are taking out their anger at The Church on me........and I would not be alone.

2 hours ago, Gary david said:

I think i have said it before. I need to look through all of this and see Jesus still there waiting. I also feel a great sympathy for all those who have devoted their life to God only to find themselves involved in such a terrible situation. I can only hope and pray that they do not succumb to despair  and fall away.

No matter where we are, how far we might have drifted, no matter what we have done........Jesus will always be still there waiting.  We can rest assured on that.  I am very sorry too for those who have devoted their lives in The Church to have to deal with these scandals too and the knee jerk reactions that just keep on coming it seems.  Ah well, we are under a sort of persecution because of Jesus and He promised:

"Blessed are you when they insult you and persecute you and utter every kind of evil against you (falsely) because of me Rejoice and be glad, for your reward will be great in heaven. Thus they persecuted the prophets who were before you." (Matthew Chapter 5)

There can be some comfort in the above, but these poor people who were abused as children and still suffer because of it and probably will all their lives.  It is just that much far greater, not even remotely close, to anything I will probably need to endure.  I am going to try to take it all as best I can and as some little act of reparation and as a prayer for those who are really suffering.

God bless

2 hours ago, Gary david said:

Jesus still there waiting

It just occurred to me, that our spiritual writers tell us that the absence of Jesus can be a sign of spiritual growth - and not what it feels like i.e. spiritually dying.  The absence of Jesus can be a real test of Faith under stress.  To be Catholic and trying for the good when we feel Jesus with us, is one thing.  But it is quite heroic to continue as Catholic and trying for the good when we cannot feel Jesus at all - quite to the contrary in fact.

Although personally, I don't think we are ever tested because Jesus knows us better than we know ourselves, rather Faith in times of stress and feeling Jesus absolutely absent is a process that strengthens Faith as no other process could, I don't think.

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BarbaraTherese
1 hour ago, BarbaraTherese said:

.Jesus will always be still there waiting

...........and waiting for every single individual as a quite unique person, a one only identity with all the faults and failings no matter how small or how bad.  I have never come across an all bad person thankfully, but I do know that when I fail in some way, I have to struggle to not see myself as all bad with nothing good about me. I think of it as a kind of blindness that accompanies sin, a blindness which can overwhelm and possess one.  It is of course a temptation to despair and it is also a failure through spiritual pride............to think I could do any better than I have done.

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BarbaraTherese

I use my email signature to link to Catholic sites, questions and answers, articles etc.   I have now changed my signature to read:

Quote

"Why I am Staying Catholic in spite of terrible Scandals: https://youtu.be/-ani_hnN8Fs "

The above is a video on YouTube by Bishop Baron.

My email signature nowadays is almost the only means I have to contribute to evangelisation.

 

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Gary david

Hi Barbera. I just have read what you wrote. I agree to what you said and there is not that much to add. Sorry as this has disturbed your sleep, I know what its like. The dreams I had that night were not pleasant ones. I kept seeing the vatican with bishops and priests hidding in dark corners. I also seeing all the money the vatican had locked away. There was a sense of terrible power with that money and also its great political power. The next day in thinking about this dream, I could see there was truth in that dream. And so, although all of which is happening is not going to turn me from being catholic I am still wondering just what is going on here. Now I am thinking that satin has been having his way for a while now with many things having these men feed on their own desires. And if this is true, then the church may have no choice but to fall like a house of cards. This for me is not a pleasant thought. There are certain basic things that Jesus said not to do and the church hasent exactly honored His teachings. Teachings such as power, political and monetary as well as all these sex scandals. Looking through my eyes I see this as a great problem. Somehow I dont feel that Jesus can be smiling on all of this as well. It may very well be that it is now Jesus rearanging His church the way He wants it to.

  Not very uplifting comments here, sorry about that. If I am correct about Jesus dealing with all of this, then I can take comfort with His final outcome.

   God bless you.....

Edited by Gary david

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BarbaraTherese
2 hours ago, Gary david said:

............ Now I am thinking that satin has been having his way for a while now with many things having these men feed on their own desires. And if this is true, then the church may have no choice but to fall like a house of cards. This for me is not a pleasant thought. 

There are certain basic things that Jesus said not to do and the church hasent exactly honored His teachings. Teachings such as power, political and monetary as well as all these sex scandals. Looking through my eyes I see this as a great problem. Somehow I dont feel that Jesus can be smiling on all of this as well. It may very well be that it is now Jesus rearanging His church the way He wants it to.

  Not very uplifting comments here, sorry about that. If I am correct about Jesus dealing with all of this, then I can take comfort with His final outcome.

   God bless you.....

The nun who taught me in college has been a prophetic voice for me.  She told me that if only one Catholic remained in the whole world, The Church remained.  She said those words before the changes from Vatican II began to be known.

Jesus has told us that sin must come but woe to those from whom it comes.  He has also told us that The Church cannot "fall like a house of cards" because "the gates of hell shall not prevail".  I think that The Church is and will undergo radical change once again - our last quite radical change was Vatican II and we have seen the problems that have come in the wake - and I think we are again in for a dramatic and radical change in the wake of the scandals.  There is nothing to be concerned about due to problems after a Council in The Church, every Council in our history has experienced it. 

What will happen in the wake of the scandals we cannot know - it is for the future.

Pope Benedict XVI wrote when he was Cardinal "(The Church) will no longer be able to inhabit many of the edifices she built in prosperity. As the number of her adherents diminishes . . . she will lose many of her social privileges. . . As a small society, [the Church] will make much bigger demands on the initiative of her individual members"  .........and the rest of his comments are here https://www.catholiceducation.org/en/religion-and-philosophy/spiritual-life/the-church-will-become-small.html

Of course, Jesus is dealing with all our problems great and small.  We can be confident and trustful of that.  That does not mean that we will feel comfortable and secure through it all and at times literally shake and tremble in psychic conflict.  It does not mean either that we will know what Jesus is about.  It will probably mean an 'edge of the seat' ride as it was after Vatican II when obedience and  acquiesce was not easy, rather it was extremely difficult for probably most of us - for some it was impossible and they turned away.

It does mean that we have to contribute in some way, that we have work to do as a result of the scandals we face today - we have a part to play.....that is a question for each person: "What can I do?"  Probably for most of us it will be to remain a faithful Catholic and not be afraid to state it.  It might mean when I feel like running and am afraid to keep trying to lift others out of their own fears -and in the doing find that my own are eased as well.

It aint going to be easy for sure and I think we will be in for very dark times when perhaps it is so dark one is blind and anxiety ridden..............been there a couple of times now since the scandals broke.  

"Pray as if everything depended on prayer

and work as if everything depended on work"  (St Augustine)

May God bless you also, Gary.

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Gary david

Well that was well said. Words of faith and inspiration. I didnt mean that there would.no catholics left after this. I simply meant that after everything is all said done with, the church as we know it presently will be changed dramaticaly.

  Thats just my thinking anyway. God bless barbara....

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