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Is Everything In The Catechism Dogma?


Ziggamafu

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Polar Bear, thank you for the information. I was unaware of whether or not they are still peformed because I had never heard a Baptism announced as being conditional and because I had been told by a Priest (of the new Rite) that these were uncommon today. Also, just for future reference, when a conditional Baptism is not identified as such, is it simply carried out as a normal Baptism and then just invalid if the person is already baptized, or does the Priest actually say the words before "If I may baptize thee in this way" or "Conditionally, (I baptize thee...)". To my knowledge, the traditional form of conditional Baptism includes some phrase before the actual Baptism (which does not change its form from "I baptize thee in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost"). Do you know any of the specifics concerning this? God bless.

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Sojourner,

I'm not understanding your point. Are you suggesting that all 80,000 or so adult converts meet indiviually with a priest for several months before reception into the Church? Yes, clearly adult converts (who are baptized and Christian already) should be recieved at a time other than Easter Vigil, but there is nothing to say that they should not attend the rest of the program. I know your instructor was not the strongest example of Orthodoxy, but you can't throw out the whole program based on that one example. Additionally, I can't think of a single person who isn't better off going through several months of formal instruction and living as a Catholic before being admitted to the Sacrements.

peace...

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[quote name='PedroX' date='Jul 9 2004, 01:34 PM'] Sojourner,

I'm not understanding your point.  Are you suggesting that all 80,000 or so adult converts meet indiviually with a priest for several months before reception into the Church? 

[/quote]
Yes, I am suggesting exactly that. On a per-parish basis, I don't believe the number would be that overwhelming. Out of my class last year, we're talking about maybe two or three people who would have been in this position.

I'm not saying weekly hours-long meetings, but rather some sort of individual assessment and direction of spiritual growth at set points along the way.

Edited to add: I suppose this could also happen with an adequately equipped RCIA instructor(s); however, the priest should be involved in the process at some point.

[quote]Yes, clearly adult converts (who are baptized and Christian already) should be recieved at a time other than Easter Vigil, but there is nothing to say that they should not attend the rest of the program.  [/quote]

[quote]"Those baptized persons who have lived as Christians and need only instruction in the Catholic tradition and a degree of probation within the Catholic community should not be asked to undergo a full program parallel to the catechumenate" (NSC 31)[/quote]


[quote]I know your instructor was not the strongest example of Orthodoxy, but you can't throw out the whole program based on that one example.  Additionally, I can't think of a single person who isn't better off going through several months of formal instruction and living as a Catholic before being admitted to the Sacrements.

peace...[/quote]

Again, I am not saying the waiting isn't (and wasn't) valuable. However, I think more individualized attention would be infinitely more beneficial to adults Christians who are joining the church.

I realize that I speak from a limited perspective. I've never gone through RCIA anywhere else, or observed how other parishes do it. And, I am sure there were people in my class who benefitted (to some degree) from what was taught even in my class. I, however, would not count myself among that number.

I don't think that what I'm suggesting would call for a complete overhaul of the program -- really, I'm simply saying that we should follow the norms that have already been established for RCIA. I am sure there are some parishes that do a really good job at catechizing adults who wish to join the church. But, I'd say there are also a good number whose RCIA programs are not that strong.

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