shelly_freak Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 did we forget the fact that i am liberal? i have views smilar to kerry's on some points. see the thing is u think a vote for kerry is wrong, well guess what, i think a vote for bush is wrong. so what i think wins when it comes to how i vote. at least kerry can speak correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reelguy227 Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 a good catholic doesnt vote for a president who is for killing babies ,thats all i gotta say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelly_freak Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 ok then, u said it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorphRC Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 Wow So Many Options! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*teen4Christ* Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 [quote name='reelguy227' date='Aug 3 2004, 09:56 PM'] a good catholic doesnt vote for a president who is for killing babies ,thats all i gotta say. [/quote] ditto!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Posted August 6, 2004 Share Posted August 6, 2004 Quite an objective poll... =) I wish politicians could see it this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorphRC Posted August 6, 2004 Share Posted August 6, 2004 They will when morals are introduced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jinx Posted August 6, 2004 Share Posted August 6, 2004 i agee, i which politicians could see it in this light too, i mean think about how many people and different ideas could be on this world ... all people have the right to live Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmjtina Posted August 7, 2004 Share Posted August 7, 2004 [quote name='shelly_freak' date='Aug 3 2004, 04:14 PM'] u know what im stoppin now cause im gonna get myself in trouble. it doesnt really matter anyways cause im voting for Kerry no matter what u say, only God himself could sway me at this point [/quote] So if your voting for Kerry, and get mad at ppl bringing up all the liberals together who aren't pro-life then why get all upset if you fit the shoe? You say your pro-life, yet you vote for kerry who is for the sacrament of abortion and everything the Catholic Church is not. You are in grave sin if you vote for him and you know he is for abortion. That's not phisy, that's outright [b][u]not in line with the Church[/u][/b]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelly_freak Posted August 7, 2004 Share Posted August 7, 2004 I am pro-life. I just haven't seen Bush do anything to prevent abortion so why should I vote for him on that one issue? PS: My priest told me it's not a sin to vote for one candidate over another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reelguy227 Posted August 7, 2004 Share Posted August 7, 2004 well your priest is a liberal priest not a good catholic ,fr john corapi ,any one heard of him ,hes awesome?, said that voting for someone whos is for abortion is being an accomplice to the sin itself ,i was at one of his seminars ,it was great . yes bush has done stuff to stop abortion ,he signed the bill to ban partial birth and he is openly pro life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmjtina Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 (edited) [quote name='shelly_freak' date='Aug 7 2004, 04:59 PM']I am pro-life. I just haven't seen Bush do anything to prevent abortion so why should I vote for him on that one issue? PS: My priest told me it's not a sin to vote for one candidate over another.[/quote] There is no such thing as a squared circle. Why don't you read below and see if you and your priest are in line with the Church teaching? I don't know what your priest said, but the Church states you may NOT vote for candidate who is outright for killing all babies, same sex marriage, enthunasia etc. I'm sure even your priest would say it is evil to kill babies. You are not pro-life. To vote for a man, Kerry, who is outright for abortion, is to be pro-murder. straight from the Bishops..... [quote]Moral Duties Concerning Voting We encourage all citizens, particularly Catholics, to embrace their citizenship not merely as a duty and privilege, but as an opportunity meaningfully to participate in building the culture of life. Every voice matters in the public forum. Every vote counts. Every act of responsible citizenship is an exercise of significant individual power. We must exercise that power in ways that defend human life, especially those of God's children who are unborn, disabled or otherwise vulnerable. We get the public officials we deserve. Their virtue–or lack thereof–is a judgment not only on them, but on us. Because of this we urge our fellow citizens to see beyond party politics, to analyze campaign rhetoric critically and to choose their political leaders according to principle, not party affiliation or mere self-interest. [Living the Gospel of Life: A Challenge to American Catholics 34, National Conference of Catholic Bishops, November 1998] [/quote] then here is something also to keep in mind..... [quote]a Catholic can have an obligation to vote so as to prevent an unworthy candidate, an enemy of religion, liberty and morals, from coming into office. [/quote] now after reading those two quotes above we must acknowledge what is our primary issue? that shatters and makes our country's foundation unstable? [u]Abortion.[/u] because the right to life is both logically and actually prior to all other rights since liberty is meaningless to those who have been unjustly killed. and direct abortion is an intrinsic evil, and cannot be justified for any purpose or in any circumstances As Pope John Paul II has emphasized, the denial of the right to life, in principle, sets the stage, in principle, for the denial of all other rights The protection of innocent human life is thus the first obligation of society and voting. and from the Holy Father this..... [quote]The Holy Father enunciated this principle of the lesser evil with respect to legislation, which while not obtaining the goals which Catholic principles would demand, nonetheless, excludes even worse legislation, or corrects, in part, legislation already in force that is even more opposed to Catholic principles. A particular problem of conscience can arise in cases where a legislative vote would be decisive for the passage of a more restrictive law, aimed at limiting the number of authorized abortions, in place of a more permissive law already passed or ready to be voted on. ... In a case like the one just mentioned, when it is not possible to overturn or completely abrogate a pro-abortion law, an elected official, whose absolute personal opposition to procured abortion was well known, could licitly support proposals aimed at limiting the harm done by such a law and at lessening its negative consequences at the level of general opinion and public morality. This does not in fact represent an illicit cooperation with an unjust law, but rather a legitimate and proper attempt to limit its evil aspects. [Gospel of Life 73] [/quote] the motive is really the choice of a good, the limitation of evil by a worse candidate....we are not coroporating with evil, we are trying to stop it.... now as for your statement, Bush is indeed pro-life.... [quote]President George W Bush- Signed the Partial Birth Abortion Act into law on Nov 5 2003 and said "for years, a terrible form of violence has been directed against children who are inches from birth, while the law looked the other way." [color=red]Senator John Kerry- Voted no on the PBA ban act and voted numerous times against previous attempts to outlaw partial birth abortion[/color]. Bush- Signed the Unborn Victims of Violence Act (Laci and Connors law) into law on April 1 2004. This recognizes unborn children as victims when they are injured or killed during the commission of federal or military crimes. [color=red]Kerry- Voted against the UVV act and voted in favor of a sub amendment that would have only recognized one victim when a pregnant woman and her child are attacked. [/color] Bush- Early in his presidency GWB reinstated the Mexico City policy, which prevents tax dollars from being given to organizations that perform and promote abortions overseas. [color=red]Kerry- Has stated that his first executive order if elected would be to "reverse the Mexico City policy..." This action would give our tax dollars to organizations that perform and promote abortions overseas. [/color] Bush- Is against taxpayer dollars being used to pay for abortions. While he was governor of TX, Bush filed a friend of the court brief stating his strong opposition to an attempt to compel the state to pay for elective abortions. [color=red]Kerry- Voted numerous times to allow abortions at US military medical facilities and has voted at least 25 times in favor of using taxpayer dollars to pay for abortions in the US [/color] Bush- Has addressed the March for Life via telephone. [color=red]Kerry- Attends and is a featured speaker at pro-abortion rallies. [/color] Bush- Backs a ban on all human cloning. [color=red]Kerry- Opposes a ban on all human cloning. [/color] Bush- Endorsed by numerous prolife organizations including Right to Life of MI Political Action Committee. [color=red]Kerry- Endorsed by Planned Parenthood Action Fund. Planned Parenthood is Americas #1 abortion provider, providing 227,375 abortions in 2002. [/color] Bush- Ruled that federally controlled substances cannot be used to assist in suicides. [color=red]Kerry- Has said that we will fillibuster any Supreme Court nominees who don't support abortion and if elected president would only nominate judges who support his position on abortion.[/color] [/quote] now you see what can happen if Bush is not in office to keep defending life? your not going to find a perfect candidate....but as catholics we're looking for the one who will most likely uphold Church's teachings....especially on issues on abortion that are primary issues your clearly ignoring the fact that we have the duty to save those unborn babies lives....which is wrong to do...since our Church instructs to vote for the defenseless before everything else.....and base our vote upon. To claim the right to abortion, infanticide and euthanasia, and to recognize that right in law, means to attribute to human freedom a perverse and evil significance: that of an absolute power over others and against others. This is the death of true freedom: "Truly, truly, I say to you, every one who commits sin is a slave to sin" (John 8:34). [Gospel of Life 20] the issues that WE have to focus on are issues of of anti-abortion and anti-family since both can and will cause our society to doublefold within itself....... the right of LIFE is what we must continue to open hold.... fact is, Bush has done this, his actions prove it and his pro-life........ and if we do not try to stop the one of greater evil from entering office (kerry) we could be responsible.... [quote]205. Voting is a civic duty which would seem to bind at least under venial sin whenever a good candidate has an unworthy opponent. It might even be a mortal sin if one's refusal to vote would result in the election of an unworthy candidate. [Moral Theology (Dublin: Mercier Press, 1929, 1955)] Father Heribert Jone, OFM Cap. [/quote] as catholics we can vote for Bush.....He is in the right when it comes to non-negioatable issues that we cannot clump together with the rest due it its gravity and state of importunate..... [quote]St. Thomas Aquinas put it this way: “Wherefore human laws do not forbid all vices, from which the virtuous abstain, but only the more grievous vices, from which it is possible for the majority to abstain; and chiefly those that are to the hurt of others, without the prohibition of which human society could not be maintained: thus human law prohibits murder, theft and such like.” [/quote] there are Many reasons why to vote for Bush, who is fighting against cloning, stem cell research, abortion and same-sex marraige....ALL things our Church has taught cannot and should not happen....thus its our duty to stop them..... which can only happen if we vote for a candidate who will be able to win and make a difference..... last our Holy Father once again... As Pope John Paul II explains in his encyclical, Evangelium Vitae (The Gospel of Life), “…when it is not possible to overturn or completely abrogate a pro-abortion law, an elected official, whose absolute personal opposition to procured abortion was well known, could licitly support proposals aimed at limiting the harm done by such a law and at lessening its negative consequences at the level of general opinion and morality. This does not in fact represent an illicit cooperation with an unjust law, but rather a legitimate and proper attempt to limit its evil aspects.” i hope you can see now that it is a matter of life and death...both for unborn babies and our society if we do not step to our catholic duty and defend life in the most best way we are capable of doing........ Bush is our only option in this election.........his pro-life stance will save lives.... we know Our Holy Mother Church leads us in how to defend life...and now what Our Holy Father has said to take a stand on, and our Bishops have instructed..and we need to listen..... the question is not if his 200% pro-life or not, but whether we need to vote for him in order to keep a greater evil opponent out (espeically when it comes to abortion, firstmost)....which I have explained and supported above... because in elections we have to go by what we got.... God bless. +JMJ+ Edited August 8, 2004 by jmjtina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmjtina Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 (edited) [quote name='shelly_freak' date='Aug 3 2004, 04:09 PM'] and also what if my views arent totally in line with the church? huh what then? [/quote] What kind of attitude is that? I'll be praying for you. God Bless. Edited August 8, 2004 by jmjtina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnanc Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 what really shocks me is that It wasn't untill I was a serious Catholic which was only like a year ago that I was hardly even aware of the aweful truth of abortion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reelguy227 Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 jm huge post ,but it was a good one , . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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