MorphRC Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 [quote name='Phazzan' date='Aug 30 2004, 04:21 AM'] You against alcohol? Alcohol does bad stuff to ya and makes ya do bad stuff, therefore alcohol is bad! :angry: C'mon Morph. God gave you a faculty called reason. USE IT! [/quote] I was refering to the smoking. Alcohol, isnt as bad as smoking. I despise alcohol, but thats becoz of my family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DancesforLove Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 I don't think it should be illegal, people know what they are doing to themselves when they smoke and it's clearly stated, no ones hiding it anymore and even if you outlaw it, it won't stop people, drugs are illegal aren't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLAZEr Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 I'm sorry but your example Morph is the epitome of irrational discourse and complete lack of logic. Because I don't believe there should be laws to prohibit smoking, I am therefore in favor of cancer and killing? Give me a break! How old are you? Because if you are under 20, I can be patient, but if you are over 20, you have no excuse for such silly and illogical statements. The Church does not call smoking a sin. Is the Church thereby in favor of Cancer? You are opposed to cancer . . . do you believe using Cell Phones should be illegal? How about using Sweet and Low? Don't come at me with your lazy arguments, I'll smack them down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorphRC Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 [quote name='BLAZEr' date='Aug 30 2004, 04:26 AM'] stuff [/quote] [b]Smoking Causes:[/b] Smoking Causes Lung Cancer Smoking Causes Heart Disease Smoking Kills Your Smoking Harms Others Smoking When Pregnant Harms Your Baby Smoking Is Addictive [Basic Msgs on Smoke packets, by Law, AU] [b]Smoking causes disease:[/b] [b]Emphysema[/b] is an illness that slowly rots your lungs. People with emphysema often get bronchitis again and again, and suffer lung and heart failure. [b]Lung cancer[/b] is caused by the tar in tobacco smoke. The majority of lung cancer is caused by smoking. Smoking damages a gene called p53, and this allows lung cancer to develop. [b]Heart disease and strokes[/b] are also more common among smokers than non-smokers. Smoking makes the blood cells and blood vessel walls sticky which allows dangerous fatty deposits to build up. Smoking causes more than one in three deaths from heart disease in those 65 years old and younger. [url="http://www.quit.org.au/quit/display.cfm?Category=Deciding+to+Quit&ArticleID=91&table=Quitting"]http://www.quit.org.au/quit/display.cfm?Ca...&table=Quitting[/url] ------------------------------- [b]Passive Smoking[/b] [url="http://www.cancersa.org.au/i-cms?page=1.6.36.368.188"]http://www.cancersa.org.au/i-cms?page=1.6.36.368.188[/url] [b]Passive smoking is a health hazard[/b] Mainstream and sidestream smoke both contain a large number of chemical carcinogens and other toxic substances, but undiluted sidestream smoke carries many compounds in far greater concentrations. The particles of sidestream smoke are smaller than those of mainstream smoke, which means that they can be inhaled more deeply into the lungs. [i][b]I'm a great believer in civil liberties, but I don't belive anyone has the right to poison someone else. A cigarette is a little toxic waste dump on fire. Stan Glantz (The Independent, 2001)[/b][/i] A wealth of scientific evidence now exists showing that the breathing of tobacco smoke polluted air by non-smokers can lead to serious harm, such as increased bronchitis, pneumonia and other chest illnesses in children, asthma, lung cancer and cardiovascular disease. This is of course in addition to the well known irritant effects of tobacco smoke to the eyes, nose, throat and airways passages. [b]Assessing the evidence - the health effects of passive smoking[/b] Until the early 1980's other people's tobacco smoke was considered to be a nuisance rather than a health hazard. A large body of world-wide research has since demonstrated that we can no longer ignore the health hazards of passive smoking. There have been a number of major reviews of the scientific evidence on the health effects of passive smoking. [i]Most important are reports from the:[/i] International Agency for Research on Cancer (a branch of the World Health Organisation) (1985) US Surgeon General (1986) Australia's National Health and Medical Research Council (1986) Independent Scientific Committee on Smoking and Health from the United Kingdom (1988) US Environmental Protection Agency* (1992) Royal College of Physicians of London (1992) National Health and Medical Research Council in Australia (1997) a new report* reviewing the scientific research into passive smoking - see conclusions below UK government's Scientific Committee on Tobacco and Health report* (1998) on the impact of passive smoking International Consultation on Environmental Tobacco Smoke (ETS) and Child Health May (1999) Those reports highlighted with an asterisk* were subject to procedural litigation by the tobacco industry, which in some cases resulted in changes to the recommendations released in the final document. In May 2000, environmental tobacco smoke was included in a list of known human carcinogens, developed by the US National Institutes of Health. The report indicates this listing is based on the observed causal relationship between passive exposure to tobacco smoke and human lung cancer. The listing states that there are conclusive published studies that indicate increased risk of lung cancer in nonsmoking women living with smoking husbands or working with smoking co-workers. [url="http://www.cancersa.org.au/i-cms?page=1.6.36.368.188"]http://www.cancersa.org.au/i-cms?page=1.6.36.368.188[/url] ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- [quote]Because I don't believe there should be laws to prohibit smoking, I am therefore in favor of cancer and killing? Give me a break![/quote] I didnt say it in that fashion! But since you agree smoking should be legal, you therefore [imo] dont mind the effects of smoking. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- [quote]how old are you? Because if you are under 20, I can be patient, but if you are over 20, you have no excuse for such silly and illogical statements.[/quote] 19. But what would it matter, id probably get. "your young and stupid", if i said i was over 20 id get "your old and stupid". ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- [quote]The Church does not call smoking a sin. Is the Church thereby in favor of Cancer?[/quote] I dont know what the Church says on this exactly. So no comment. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- [quote]You are opposed to cancer . . . do you believe using Cell Phones should be illegal? How about using Sweet and Low?[/quote] Oy..The evidence for cell phones is dodgy at best, according to the CSIRO. The other thing I dont know what it is. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- [quote]Don't come at me with your lazy arguments, I'll smack them down.[/quote] Step off ur war horse would ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phazzan Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 Morph, the same arguements could be used against the use of alcohol. i.e. Alcohol causes destruction of liver, alcohol causes car accidents, alcohol destroys lives bla bla bla. Fact is, it's not alcohol and cigerettes that cause illness, death, fatality, destruction whatever, it's how people choose to use (and abuse) it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLAZEr Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 Morph, this is still a lazy argument. I do not dispute the fact that cigarettes cause all sorts of health problems, including cancer. It is still not responsible (honest or true or even reasonable, for that matter) to say that because someone is against making cigarettes illegal that they are therefore in favor of cancer or, since you seem to dispute that you said that, to say that being in favor of making cigarettes illegal is because you are against "diseases and subtle killing thru passive smoking.ancer" The fact is, you can be against this, and be against smoking cigarettes and still not believe that they should be illegal. Hi! I'm an example of this. I believe smoking cigarettes is bad for people. I discourage it. In fact, I actively try to help people stop. However, I think making them illegal is a ridiculous idea and one that only someone who is a socialist would support. You are from Australia right? And you are only 19. I don't blame you for not understanding this point. You have been raised in a culture and a political system where you are accustomed to the Government being the arbiter of what your moral choices should be. However, as an American and a Catholic, I do not believe this should be the case. I actually think its better for someone to choose not to smoke, even though its legal, because they are making a choice with their will to do something healthy and wise. This is called virtue. It's a good thing. Again, that's called a smack down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelFilo Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 Alcohol is needed for consecration. God would not allow the outlaw of Alcohol (US tried, but we saw what happened). Nicotine causes addiction. Having an addiction and not fighting it is a mortal sin. We should not be addicted to anything. Allowing nicotine, which has NO health benefits, but can cause addiction after 2 cigarettes, and that would lead to grave matter(Addiction), is wrong. Comparing nicotine to alcohol is funny thinking. Alcohol has health benefits. Many studies have shown that. In excess, it is wrong. Nicotine has no health benefits. It maybe good for something, but I don't think it's good for anything inside us humans. God bless, Mikey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcePrincessKRS Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 [quote name='MichaelFilo' date='Aug 29 2004, 11:35 AM'] JMJ Pio Nono, whilst answering a question on the Q & A board, also answered this one. Anything becomes grave matter (a prerequist for mortal sin) once it becomes addiction. Making it illegal would drive people away from it. Yes, it should be illegal. God bless, Mikey [/quote] No it wouldn't. People would start growing in their back yards and smoking it illegally just like potheads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelFilo Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 Somehow, that doesn't show a bright future AFTER the generation to use it. Pot was part of an age that revolted against the norm. Smoking is not looked down upon. I don't see how you can compare the two. Even if people grew it in their back yards, there would be significantly less people smoking. If it was illegal it may replace marijuana as the drug people do because it is illegal. This wouldn't be such a bad thing. Smoking tobacco wouldn't be a very successful practice after it is made illegal because, it is highly addictive, and so, one would only grow as a smoker, until it is obvious, and is then arrested. Weed, however, since it has no addiction or little addiction value, has successfully stayed around even after it was illegal. God bless, Mikey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Wednesday Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 I voted no. Should smoking be banned in the majority of public places, like restaurants? Absolutely. Reformation of the tobacco industry? Absolutely. But if someone wants to smoke an occasional pipe or a cigar in their home, I think making that illegal is overdoing it. Not to mention the cost and energy in enforcing the law. Good golly!! If we are going to outlaw all guilty pleasures because they are bad for our health, then we should outlaw all fried food like french fries, onion rings, fish n' chips, fried chicken, and all other junk food like Twinkies, Ding Dongs, Krispy Kreme, potato chips, pork rinds, Big Macs.... I don't know what a greater epidemic there is in our country -- smoking and its related health hazards, or obesity and heart disease. I'm inclined to guess the latter. It all boils down to using your head. If you wind up with a cholesterol count of 300 and lung cancer, most likely it's nobody's fault but your own. I'm all for taxing the krap out of tobacco and alcohol products and discouraging frequent use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcePrincessKRS Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 Not Twinkies!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Wednesday Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 [quote name='IcePrincessKRS' date='Aug 29 2004, 03:07 PM'] Not Twinkies!!! [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcePrincessKRS Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 Man, now I have to go out and buy some... I'm drooling just thinking about Twinkies.... the pink kind with the coconut.... mmmmmmmmmmm....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 Is that a dancing Twinkie??? I agree with Ash, Blazer, PedroX and <gulp> Phazzan... This is not an issue of law. Government cannot and should not hold your hand through life and wipe your nose all the time. I abhor smoking, but I don't think it should be make illegal. Education is much more effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 I would be realllllly interested to see how the vote broke down by age. Did anyone over 25 vote yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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