Music Of The Church

[amarkich]

According to [i]Sacrosanctum Concilium [/i]of Vatican II Gregorian Chant is to have pride of place in the liturgy. If this is true, why is there no Gregorian Chant at any Mass (except Traditional Latin Masses)? Is there any insight someone can give me on this? For those of you who do not have Gregorian Chant, have you spoken to the Pastors of your parishes about this delineation from the Church's commands? If you need to know, the quotes from Vatican II, [i]Sacrosanctum Concilium [/i]on Sacred Music are pasted below (the sections on Gregorian Chant are bolded):





CHAPTER VI

SACRED MUSIC

112. The musical tradition of the universal Church is a treasure
of inestimable value, greater even than that of any other art.
The main reason for this pre-eminence is that, as a combination
of sacred music and words, it forms a necessary or integral part
of the solemn liturgy.

Sacred scripture, indeed, has bestowed praise upon sacred
song.[1] So have the Fathers of the Church and the Roman
pontiffs who in more recent times, led by St. Pius X, have
explained more precisely the ministerial functions exercised by
sacred music in the service of the Lord.

Therefore sacred music is to be considered the more holy, the
more closely connected it is with the liturgical action, whether
making prayer more pleasing, promoting unity of minds, or
conferring greater solemnity upon the sacred rites. The Church,
indeed, approves of all forms of true art which have the
requisite qualities, and admits them into divine worship.

Accordingly, the sacred Council, keeping to the norms and
precepts of ecclesiastical tradition and discipline and having
regard to the purpose of sacred music, which is the glory of God
and the sanctification of the faithful, decrees as follows:

113. Liturgical worship is given a more noble form when the
divine offices are celebrated solemnly in song with the
assistance of sacred ministers and the active participation of
the people.

As regards the language to be used, the provisions of Article 36
are to be observed; for the Mass, Article 54; for the sacraments,
Article 63; for the divine office, Article 101.

[b] 114. The treasury of sacred music is to be preserved and
cultivated with great care. Choirs must be assiduously
developed, especially in cathedral churches. Bishops and other
pastors of souls must take great care to ensure that whenever the
sacred action is to be accompanied by chant, the whole body of
the faithful may be able to contribute that active participation
which is rightly theirs, as laid down in Articles 28 and 30.[/b]

115. Great importance is to be attached to the teaching and
practice of music in seminaries, in the novitiates and houses of
studies of religious of both sexes, and also in other Catholic
institutions and schools. To impart this instruction teachers
_______________________________________________________
1. Cf. Eph. 5:19; Col. 3:16.






are to be carefully trained and put in charge of the teaching of
sacred music.

It is desirable also that higher institutes of sacred music be
established whenever possible.

Composers and singers, especially boys, must also be given a
genuine liturgical training.

[b]116. The Church recognizes Gregorian chant as being specially
suited to the Roman liturgy. Therefore, other things being
equal, it should be given [u]pride of place [/u]in liturgical services.[/b]

Other kinds of sacred music, especially polyphony, are by no
means excluded from liturgical celebrations so long as they
accord with the spirit of the liturgical action as laid down in
Article 30.

[b]117. The typical edition of the books of Gregorian chant is to
be completed. In addition a more critical edition is to be
prepared of those books already published since the restoration
by St. Pius X.[/b]

It is desirable also that an edition be prepared containing
simpler melodies for use in smaller churches.

118. Religious singing by the faithful is to be intelligently
fostered so that in devotions and sacred exercises as well as in
liturgical services, the voices of the faithful may be heard, in
conformity with the norms and requirements of the rubrics.

119. In certain countries, especially in mission lands there are
people who have their own musical tradition, and this plays a
great part in their religious and social life. For this reason
their music should be held in proper esteem and a suitable place
is to be given to it, not only in forming their religious sense
but also in adapting worship to their native genius, as indicated
in Articles 39 and 40.

Therefore, in the musical training of missionaries, great care
should be taken to see that they become competent in promoting
the traditional music of those peoples both in the schools and in
sacred services, as far as may be practicable.

120. The pipe organ is to be held in high esteem in the Latin
Church, for it is the traditional musical instrument, the sound
of which can add a wonderful splendor to the Church's ceremonies
and powerfully lifts up men's minds to God and higher things.

But other instruments also may be admitted for use in divine
worship, in the judgment and with the consent of the competent
territorial authority as laid down in Articles 22: 2, 37 and 40.
This may be done, however, only on condition that the instruments
are suitable, or can be made suitable, for sacred use; that they
accord with the dignity of the temple, and that they truly
contribute to the edification of the faithful.

121. Composers, animated by the Christian spirit, should accept
that it pertains to their vocation to cultivate sacred music and
increase its store of treasures.

Let them produce compositions which have the qualities proper to
genuine sacred music, and which can be sung not only by large
choirs but also by smaller choirs, and which make possible the
active participation of the whole congregation.

The texts intended to be sung must always be in conformity with
Catholic doctrine. Indeed, they should be drawn chiefly from the
sacred scripture and from liturgical sources.

Edited September 15, 2004 by amarkich

[Guest JeffCR07]

Adam! Its wonderful to see you again, welcome back!

While I am not positive that this is the answer that you are looking for, I would like to respond if I may...

I have been to [i]Ordo Missae[/i] Masses that use Gregorian chant, and they are most certainly beautiful, In my humble opinion, I think it would be wonderful to see it used more often, as it is a wondeful way to experience our tradition in the sacrifice of the Mass. I think this is made even more true by the fact that there are many, like you, who cannot find an [i]Ordo Missae[/i] Mass that incorporates the Chant.

However, while I know this is not something you would do, I would warn anyone from thinking that not including Gregorian Chant has anything to do with invalidating the Mass, or has any sort of negative affect on the efficacy and powerful mystery of the Mass.

Now seeing as this is a disciplinary directive of the Holy Father, I acknowledge that it may not be infallible, however, this does not mean that it can simply be discarded, for all that is written by the Popes, and not just those things stated [i]de fide[/i], should be considered with the utmost gravity.

Somewhat linked to that, I wonder, does anyone know if there has been a document/letter issued by Rome that leaves decisions on the type of music, etc, up to the Bishops? I feel like there has been, but I cannot remember specifically...

o well.

Good to have you back!

- Your Brother In Christ, Jeff

[Guest AloysiusGhost]

we should be using gregorian chant more. suppress the folk masses and stuff and add more greagorian masses

[qfnol31]

[quote name='amarkich' date='Sep 15 2004, 02:08 PM'] According to [i]Sacrosanctum Concilium [/i]of Vatican II Gregorian Chant is to have pride of place in the liturgy. If this is true, why is there no Gregorian Chant at any Mass (except Traditional Latin Masses)? [/quote]
Where do you get that it's only in the Tridentine Mass?

You need to get out more. The Mass I attend is mostly chant, and if not, it's polyphonic hymns.

[Socrates]

[quote name='AloysiusGhost' date='Sep 15 2004, 06:11 PM'] we should be using gregorian chant more. suppress the folk masses and stuff and add more greagorian masses [/quote]
Ditto!

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

My Church would never play it. I doubt they could even pronounce the words.

[MichaelFilo]

Lucky men ye are, who have the Chant. We lack it like we lack any real Catholic zeal iin this city.

God bless,

Mikey

[drewmeister2]

I disagree with what the Church is saying here. I have no problem (and I dont know why the Church would have one) with Latin hymns, which our parish occassionally sings. I also dont mind English songs. I do agree, Gregorian Chant would be nice, and maybe it should be required more, but it shouldn't be the only thing allowed at Mass. Just my thoughts. God bless

[jmjtina]

[quote name='qfnol31' date='Sep 15 2004, 06:23 PM'] Where do you get that it's only in the Tridentine Mass?

You need to get out more. The Mass I attend is mostly chant, and if not, it's polyphonic hymns. [/quote]
ZACH!!!! your sig is AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :cheer:

[Mrvoll]

I think we should have it more at mass. Sure it is on devotional tapes and CD's, but the younger generation(like me) have not heard of it and it will die off if we do not play it at church.

[qfnol31]

[quote name='drewmeister2' date='Sep 18 2004, 03:04 PM'] I disagree with what the Church is saying here. I have no problem (and I dont know why the Church would have one) with Latin hymns, which our parish occassionally sings. I also dont mind English songs. I do agree, Gregorian Chant would be nice, and maybe it should be required more, but it shouldn't be the only thing allowed at Mass. Just my thoughts. God bless [/quote]
Are you saying that "God bless America is appropriate?"

It seems to promote America more than the Universal Church (like most music today).

Oh well, just a thought.

[Theoketos]

[quote name='amarkich' date='Sep 15 2004, 02:08 PM'] According to [i]Sacrosanctum Concilium [/i]of Vatican II Gregorian Chant is to have pride of place in the liturgy. If this is true, why is there no Gregorian Chant at any Mass (except Traditional Latin Masses)? Is there any insight someone can give me on this? For those of you who do not have Gregorian Chant, have you spoken to the Pastors of your parishes about this delineation from the Church's commands? If you need to know, the quotes from Vatican II, [i]Sacrosanctum Concilium [/i]on Sacred Music are pasted below (the sections on Gregorian Chant are bolded):





CHAPTER VI

SACRED MUSIC

112. The musical tradition of the universal Church is a treasure
of inestimable value, greater even than that of any other art.
The main reason for this pre-eminence is that, as a combination
of sacred music and words, it forms a necessary or integral part
of the solemn liturgy.

Sacred scripture, indeed, has bestowed praise upon sacred
song.[1] So have the Fathers of the Church and the Roman
pontiffs who in more recent times, led by St. Pius X, have
explained more precisely the ministerial functions exercised by
sacred music in the service of the Lord.

Therefore sacred music is to be considered the more holy, the
more closely connected it is with the liturgical action, whether
making prayer more pleasing, promoting unity of minds, or
conferring greater solemnity upon the sacred rites. The Church,
indeed, approves of all forms of true art which have the
requisite qualities, and admits them into divine worship.

Accordingly, the sacred Council, keeping to the norms and
precepts of ecclesiastical tradition and discipline and having
regard to the purpose of sacred music, which is the glory of God
and the sanctification of the faithful, decrees as follows:

113. Liturgical worship is given a more noble form when the
divine offices are celebrated solemnly in song with the
assistance of sacred ministers and the active participation of
the people.

As regards the language to be used, the provisions of Article 36
are to be observed; for the Mass, Article 54; for the sacraments,
Article 63; for the divine office, Article 101.

[b] 114. The treasury of sacred music is to be preserved and
cultivated with great care. Choirs must be assiduously
developed, especially in cathedral churches. Bishops and other
pastors of souls must take great care to ensure that whenever the
sacred action is to be accompanied by chant, the whole body of
the faithful may be able to contribute that active participation
which is rightly theirs, as laid down in Articles 28 and 30.[/b]

115. Great importance is to be attached to the teaching and
practice of music in seminaries, in the novitiates and houses of
studies of religious of both sexes, and also in other Catholic
institutions and schools. To impart this instruction teachers
_______________________________________________________
1. Cf. Eph. 5:19; Col. 3:16.






are to be carefully trained and put in charge of the teaching of
sacred music.

It is desirable also that higher institutes of sacred music be
established whenever possible.

Composers and singers, especially boys, must also be given a
genuine liturgical training.

[b]116. The Church recognizes Gregorian chant as being specially
suited to the Roman liturgy. Therefore, other things being
equal, it should be given [u]pride of place [/u]in liturgical services.[/b]

Other kinds of sacred music, especially polyphony, are by no
means excluded from liturgical celebrations so long as they
accord with the spirit of the liturgical action as laid down in
Article 30.

[b]117. The typical edition of the books of Gregorian chant is to
be completed. In addition a more critical edition is to be
prepared of those books already published since the restoration
by St. Pius X.[/b]

It is desirable also that an edition be prepared containing
simpler melodies for use in smaller churches.

118. Religious singing by the faithful is to be intelligently
fostered so that in devotions and sacred exercises as well as in
liturgical services, the voices of the faithful may be heard, in
conformity with the norms and requirements of the rubrics.

119. In certain countries, especially in mission lands there are
people who have their own musical tradition, and this plays a
great part in their religious and social life. For this reason
their music should be held in proper esteem and a suitable place
is to be given to it, not only in forming their religious sense
but also in adapting worship to their native genius, as indicated
in Articles 39 and 40.

Therefore, in the musical training of missionaries, great care
should be taken to see that they become competent in promoting
the traditional music of those peoples both in the schools and in
sacred services, as far as may be practicable.

120. The pipe organ is to be held in high esteem in the Latin
Church, for it is the traditional musical instrument, the sound
of which can add a wonderful splendor to the Church's ceremonies
and powerfully lifts up men's minds to God and higher things.

But other instruments also may be admitted for use in divine
worship, in the judgment and with the consent of the competent
territorial authority as laid down in Articles 22: 2, 37 and 40.
This may be done, however, only on condition that the instruments
are suitable, or can be made suitable, for sacred use; that they
accord with the dignity of the temple, and that they truly
contribute to the edification of the faithful.

121. Composers, animated by the Christian spirit, should accept
that it pertains to their vocation to cultivate sacred music and
increase its store of treasures.

Let them produce compositions which have the qualities proper to
genuine sacred music, and which can be sung not only by large
choirs but also by smaller choirs, and which make possible the
active participation of the whole congregation.

The texts intended to be sung must always be in conformity with
Catholic doctrine. Indeed, they should be drawn chiefly from the
sacred scripture and from liturgical sources. [/quote]
Well, I think that you assume that there is no chant at other masses, and you are wrong about that. Here at UD we have it all the time.

Also I have been to several "latin" Masses and there has no gregorian chant...just a thought.

[DominaNostra]

I don't think the issue should be whether or not all Novus Ordo Masses are devoid of Gregorian Chant but rather that most and almost all Novus Ordo Masses are devoid of Gregorian Chant, and most Catholics have not heard it sung (at least in person). The fact is that almost every parish in America (maybe in the world) is disobedient to Vatican II. Those who do not have Gregorian Chant, why do you not petition your pastor to start a program to make Chant the primary (or only) form of music at Mass. There is no obligation to use anything other than Gregorian Chant, but Sacred Polyphony is not discouraged, so this could be used as well, but Gregorian Chant must be used most, having "pride of place." I think that all who do not have Gregorian Chant should tell their pastors that they want it and that they want to follow what Vatican II actually says. They are not going to incorporate this without some sort of support or petition for it (at least in most cases). God bless.

[Cam42]

[url="http://bettnet.dyndns.org/blog/forum/threads.php?id=3641_0_2_0_C"]http://bettnet.dyndns.org/blog/forum/threa...id=3641_0_2_0_C[/url]

Hello all,

I have posted a thread that I initated at another site, on this very issue. I think that you'll be able to figure out pretty easily who I am.....

At any rate, my emphasis in graduate school was the Liturgy. It is long and it will take a while to read, but it is totally worth it. It is a great tract on the "pride of place" issue in the Mass.

If you need or want any clarification, let me know...

Cam42

[Sinner]

I wish there was more chant!!!! It is beautiful. If you are ever in Dallas area be sure to go to the Cistercian Chapel near the University of Dallas. It is a beautiful Mass with Gregorian Chant....... only during the school year I think.