ICTHUS Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 Matthew 11:11 I tell you the truth: Among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. Wouldn't this imply that John the Baptist is greater than Our Lady? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTHUS Posted September 26, 2003 Author Share Posted September 26, 2003 Also, Scott Hahn writes in "Hail Holy Queen" that Mary typifies the Church, which is the Bride of Christ. My question is this. How can she be His Bride if shes His Mother? Wouldn't that make Christ's marriage to His Bride, the Church, incestuous? I know that sounds blasphemous, but bear with me. I'm quite confused on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 Matthew 11:11 I tell you the truth: Among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. Wouldn't this imply that John the Baptist is greater than Our Lady? nope. John is the last prophet of the Old Testament. Jesus here is calling him the greatest. But John dies before the crucifixion and resurrection. Mary does not. She is part and parcel of the Kingdom of God as are all the early christians (although in a better way). THe Crucifixion and Resurrection are the most important things that ever happened in the world. THe world changed forever. THat is the comparison Jesus is making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 Also, Scott Hahn writes in "Hail Holy Queen" that Mary typifies the Church, which is the Bride of Christ. My question is this. How can she be His Bride if shes His Mother? Wouldn't that make Christ's marriage to His Bride, the Church, incestuous? I know that sounds blasphemous, but bear with me. I'm quite confused on this. Mary may typify the Church, but that doesn't mean that Mary is the Church. I don't recall any teaching that Mary is actually the Church. Typify generally means to be an example of, or have the same characteristics of--it doesn't mean she actually is. Hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 Mary is also calleed the Ark because she carried Jesus like the Ark carried the 10 Commandments. THere are types and precursors all thru the Bible. Moses was a type for Jesus Elijah a type for John the Baptist. etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JP2Iloveyou Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 We were actually talking about Typology in my Theology class the other day. One of my favorite stories in the OT is where Abraham is asked to sacrifice Isaac. It is the perfect parallel to the Sacrifice of Christ. I will post more on this later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTHUS Posted September 27, 2003 Author Share Posted September 27, 2003 Mary is also calleed the Ark because she carried Jesus like the Ark carried the 10 Commandments. THere are types and precursors all thru the Bible. Moses was a type for Jesus Elijah a type for John the Baptist. etc. There's a lot more to Mary being the Ark than that. The Ark of the Old Covenant carried three things, 1. The Word of God (the stone tablets containing the Ten Commandments) which typifies the fact that Jesus is the Word of God (Cf. St. John 1:1-6) 2. A golden jar containing Manna from heaven (typifying the Bread of Life, cf. St. John 6:48-68) 3. The staff of Aaron, symbolising his High Priesthood for Israel (Christ is now our High Priest, the Mediator of the New Covenant, cf. the Letter to the Hebrews) Jesus Christ is the archetype of all three things which the Ark of the Old Covenant carried. Therefore, the Vessel in which Christ was borne and brought forth to the world (namely, Mary) is the Ark of the New Covenant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTHUS Posted September 27, 2003 Author Share Posted September 27, 2003 nope. John is the last prophet of the Old Testament. Jesus here is calling him the greatest. But John dies before the crucifixion and resurrection. Mary does not. She is part and parcel of the Kingdom of God as are all the early christians (although in a better way). THe Crucifixion and Resurrection are the most important things that ever happened in the world. THe world changed forever. THat is the comparison Jesus is making. But Jesus is saying "Among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist" Thus we establish the following points, 1. Mary had already "risen" by the time Christ said this, and yet Christ still gave John the Baptist greater mention as to his greatness. 2. Mary is born of woman (St. Anna, to be precise, as the Protoevangelium of James tells us) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTHUS Posted September 27, 2003 Author Share Posted September 27, 2003 Oy Me! I am so dense!! "he who is least in the Kingdom of Heaven is greater than he" When John the Baptist was around, the Kingdom of Heaven had not been inaugurated by the crucifixion and resurrection. We're talking about two different eras here. So Mary may well be the greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven whereas John the Baptist was the greatest in the Old Covenant?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted September 27, 2003 Share Posted September 27, 2003 yep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trooper4DaHolyG Posted September 27, 2003 Share Posted September 27, 2003 this is very confusing since when did Mary the Saint, become Mary The Queen Mother of Heaven? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joolye Posted September 27, 2003 Share Posted September 27, 2003 Yeah, when I read the title and description of this post I thought it was about the Queen Mother of Britain!!! I've never heard of Mary being referred to as the Queen mother! If Mary is the Queen Mother, then who is the Queen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTHUS Posted September 27, 2003 Author Share Posted September 27, 2003 Yeah, when I read the title and description of this post I thought it was about the Queen Mother of Britain!!! I've never heard of Mary being referred to as the Queen mother! If Mary is the Queen Mother, then who is the Queen? 3 Kings (A.K.A. 1 Kings) 2:12-21, Douay-Rheims version (Cuz the DRV uses cool words, heheheh) 1 And Adonias, the son of Haggith, came to Bethsabee the mother of Solomon. And she said to him: Is thy coming peaceable? He answered: It is peaceable. 14 And he added: I have a word to speak with thee. She said to him: Speak. And he said: 15 Thou knowest that the kingdom was mine, and all Israel had preferred me to be their king: but the kingdom is transferred, and is become my brother's: for it was appointed him by the Lord. 16 Now therefore, I ask one petition of thee; turn not away my face. And she said to him: Say on. 17 And he said I pray thee speak to king Solomon (for he cannot deny thee any thing) to give me Abisag, the Sunamitess, to wife. 18 And Bethsabee said: Well, I will speak for thee to the king. 19 Then Bethsabee came to king Solomon, to speak to him for Adonias: and the king arose to meet her, and bowed to her, and sat down upon his throne: and a throne was set for the king's mother, and she sat on his right hand. 20 And she said to him: I desire one small petition of thee; do not put me to confusion. And the king said to her: My mother ask, for I must not turn away thy face. 21 And she said: Let Abisag, the Sunamitess, be given to Adonias, thy brother, to wife. 22 And king Solomon answered, and said to his mother: Why dost thou ask Abisag, the Sunamitess, for Adonias? ask for him also the kingdom; for he is my elder brother, and hath Abiathar, the priest, and Joab, the son of Sarvia. In ancient Israel, the Mother of the King, NOT the Kings Wife (as Davidic Kings often had numerous wives) was the Queen. She was also an intercessor to the King on behalf of the people. Hence, since Christ is a king in the line of David, His Mother is an intercessor and an advocate for us to Him - the archetypal Queen Mother, because she is both Queen and Mother. Hence, the Church prays "Hail, Holy Queen, Our life, our sweetness, and our hope" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted September 27, 2003 Share Posted September 27, 2003 this is very confusing since when did Mary the Saint, become Mary The Queen Mother of Heaven? Read Revelation THe woman crowned with the Sun written by St John who took care of Mary after Jesus ascended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted September 27, 2003 Share Posted September 27, 2003 Yeah, when I read the title and description of this post I thought it was about the Queen Mother of Britain!!! I've never heard of Mary being referred to as the Queen mother! If Mary is the Queen Mother, then who is the Queen? the Church!!!!!!!!!!!! wow, i never even thought of that before, someone tell me if i'm right? the Church is the bride of Christ, Mary is the Mother of Christ Mary is also Mother of the Church... it all makes perfect sense the Church must be the queen anyway, that doesn't quite matter, you're thinking in terms of a modern monarchy. In an ancient monarchy, the Queen was always the mother of the King (at least in the ancient Davidic monarchy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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