ICTHUS Posted September 27, 2003 Share Posted September 27, 2003 "All humanity has been redeemed, and so in that sense, all belong to Christ" It would seem to me that NOT all humanity has been redeemed, as not all humanity are Christians? Your thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted September 28, 2003 Share Posted September 28, 2003 All humanity is redeemed in the sense that Jesus has died for us, and redemption is now available. We all belong to Christ if we accept his offer. You really cannot take one statement without a context and make a judgement on someone.You can make anybody say anything that way. Just as in reading the bible, context and theme are important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLAZEr Posted September 28, 2003 Share Posted September 28, 2003 This is clasic . . . because what we mean by Redemption, Salvation, Justification, Faith, Grace . . . all these things are important, and probably each of us is short on full understanding of one of these, eh? All of Humanity has been Redeemed. That's what happened on the cross. Christ redeemed humanity from iniquity. Just like when you redeem your winning prize ticket for the prize, humanity has been redeemed for the prize. Now, whether we cooperate with his redemption is up to us . . . let's say the prize you win is a little dog. Well, it can bite your leg right? Even though you're gonna take care of it and love it and help it to be good. it can still run away . . . well, it's been redeemed, but not saved . . . and that's the Catholic view of redemption . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark4IHM Posted September 28, 2003 Share Posted September 28, 2003 Icthus, As you may know, in traditional theology there are two types of redemption. Christ's passion and death re-opened the gates of heaven for all men. This is called objective redemption. Of course, we all don't automatically go to heaven. Even though Christ has objectively redeemed us through the cross, and thus made heaven possible for us, it remains for each of us, as individuals, to work out our own salvation in fear and trembling, as St. Paul put it. This is called subjective, or individual redemption (also known as justification). If Christ's death had redeemed and justified all men, we would all be objectively and subjectively redeemed, and the Church and the sacraments would not be necessary for salvation. We'd all go to heaven whether we were Christians or not. Some people, perhaps the individual you are quoting, believe that. But the Church has never taught that. If you are quoting who I think you are quoting, you are being naughty Icthus. B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary's Knight, La Posted September 28, 2003 Share Posted September 28, 2003 well one interpretation of that concept which Sheed supports is that all humanity as in human nature was redeemed through original sin human nature lost the capacity for eternal life, through Christ's redemptive act human nature was made capable of receiving salvific grace restoring it's ability to exist in Heaven. it's a bit heady especially condensed so much but i think there's enough for you to get the point. As was pointed out earlier you still have to participate in receiving the grace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTHUS Posted September 28, 2003 Author Share Posted September 28, 2003 Okay, THANK YOU peoples. That statement was difficult for me to understand...but I now understand it, so it's all good. I formlerly attended a free evangelical church where the only time one would speak of someone as redeemed was if they had been subjectively redeemed (as Blazer put it) The person who said it was Bishop James Foley, Bishop of Cairns, Australia, at the Saturday Vigil at St. Monicas Cathedral last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted September 28, 2003 Share Posted September 28, 2003 What was the context of his statement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLAZEr Posted September 28, 2003 Share Posted September 28, 2003 Just to give credit where credit is due, Mark4Him gave the excellent explanation of subjective redemption . . . props. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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