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Charismatic-thing-a-ma-bob


ThereseFlower

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Ok. I need someone to explain something to me, if y'all would be so kind. ^_^

There are a lot of words being flung around da phorum (among other Catholic places on the web) and I have found that I am confused most of the time.

What does it mean when someone is charismatic? How is this different from being, say, *not* charismatic?

Does sedevacantism mean that there are people who don't believe there has been a vaild Pope since Vatican II?

I guess what I am saying is, there was a HUGE change when Vatican II happened, right? No more Latin and a whole lot more.

Clarification is very appreciated! B)

trust in Him,

~TF~

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charismatics are a group in the Church who have like, guitar music and stuff at their mass and focus on gifts of the Holy Spirit like healing and tongues. It's up in the air as to whether or not they're legit (i dont really see how tongues is a miracle if there's no one there to understand... and i don't remember God doin many miracles just for the sake of them being miracles)

anyway, i don't know the term u used, but i know there are ppl who think that the last real Pope was Pius XII, and actually they recently elected their own pope they call Pius XII. he isn't really a pope, but if you email him and tell him he isn't, he prolly wont respond (i tried it :D ) Anyway, those ppl are too concerned with manmade tradition. They want the mass in Latin and stuff, and it's all well and good, but it isn't necessary and they can't seem to get it through their heads. Anyway, they also don't like our hope for the salvation of the unbaptized. Prolly Vatican II or sometime since then we defined the doctrine that said we trust in the mercy of God for the unbaptized, that they can be saved through a baptism of desire (like babies who really had no sin other than original but weren't baptized) or baptism of blood (like martyrs,,, abortion victems) and also i think they're a lil upset at us saying that protestants can be saved because they have an incomplete union with the Catholic Church... they kinda want only Catholics to be saved

So it's basically we trust the mercy of God for these souls, and they think these ppl are all doomed to hell. theyre kinda messed up, but we love em anyway. at least they prolly still have valid Holy Orders and such, just not the unity of Peter.

so yeah, there was a "Change" if you wanna call it that. The thing with that word is, the Church doesn't change its faith. It changed its expression of it (hey, im borrowing from The Apologist--Catholics In Action) with the Novus Ordo Mass (new order of the Mass) and developed some of it's knowledge of God's mercy and salvation for souls. Developed, not changed.

Anyway, dUST doesn't want us debating traditionalism n stuff, so as long as ive explained it all right enough 2 ya, let us let this thread die.

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Thanks a lot Al, for explaining some things. ^_^

No way, nuh uh--no intention debating on that stuff here. I was just trying to understand what the difference is a little better, not saying whether one way is better than another.

peace,

~TF~

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Charismatics have nothing to do with guitars at mass. Guitars are at mass because they sound good. Many Spainish masses have guitar. It's a cultrual thing, not liturgical.

Charismatics are very into more intense response. Some do have masses so that Chrismatics can respond without being too different. In my little experience, Charismatics will have a praise and worship Eucharistic Adoration type thing, not the Mass. They do show outward signs of the Holy Spirit. I haven't witnessed tongues in a Catholic service yet, but I've seen people get very emotional during Eucharistic Adoration and have been told (and experienced) profound feelings of God's presence during Eucharistic Adoration.

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in my church they have a mass every 3rd thursday. they use a guitar and have sort of contemporary music, not like a LifeTeen with drums and all that, but fairly contemporary. it's interesting.

i've seen them speak in tongues when prayin over ppl... i guess i don't really see the miracle in the tongues part when no one understands. i think there should at least be an interpreter or there's no point.

i've seen ppl prayed over and fall down. i kinda think it's real since my friend went up and it happened to her, although she seemed a bit wierd after it.

i donno... i don't see a point in getting involved in the Charismatic movement, at least for myself--maybe the Spirit just isn't calling me to it, but they are very knowledgable of scripture and apparently do show outward gifts of the Holy Spirit.

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anyway, i don't know the term u used, but i know there are ppl who think that the last real Pope was Pius XII, and actually they recently elected their own pope they call Pius XII.  he isn't really a pope, but if you email him and tell him he isn't, he prolly wont respond (i tried it  :D )

That almost sounds like the anti-popes of the early days of the church.

I was wondering,this charismatic movement,do you think that many of them are converts that would like to see theyre style of church i.e. tongues,heavy music added to the church? just wondering

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in my church they have a mass every 3rd thursday.  they use a guitar and have sort of contemporary music, not like a LifeTeen with drums and all that, but fairly contemporary.  it's interesting.

Dude,

If that's the only time you've seen guitars at a Mass, you need to get out more. What about flutes, trumpets, violas, cellos, violins, saxaphones, and a piano (not an organ)?

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Dude,

If that's the only time you've seen guitars at a Mass, you need to get out more.  What about flutes, trumpets, violas, cellos, violins, saxaphones, and a piano (not an organ)?

You won't find any of that here.

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We have a Clavinova (keyboard), piano, organ, acoustic guitars, violin, flute and singers (not all at once!!) at my mass on different occasions...

But everything else seems normal. No speaking in tongues or anything weird like that.

So, does being Charismatic mean that it makes mass more secular or "hip"? :huh:

~TF~

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in my church they have a mass every 3rd thursday.  they use a guitar and have sort of contemporary music, not like a LifeTeen with drums and all that, but fairly contemporary.  it's interesting.

i've seen them speak in tongues when prayin over ppl... i guess i don't really see the miracle in the tongues part when no one understands.  i think there should at least be an interpreter or there's no point.

i've seen ppl prayed over and fall down.  i kinda think it's real since my friend went up and it happened to her, although she seemed a bit wierd after it.

i donno... i don't see a point in getting involved in the Charismatic movement, at least for myself--maybe the Spirit just isn't calling me to it, but they are very knowledgable of scripture and apparently do show outward gifts of the Holy Spirit.

i've seen them speak in tongues when prayin over ppl... i guess i don't really see the miracle in the tongues part when no one understands.
There are several (3 I think) different "tongues". The kind the Apostles experienced on Penticos was for the express purpose of others understanding. The kind you normally hear at Charismatic services are "angelic" tongues. They are between you and God. It is commonly called your own "prayer language". The purpose of these "tongues" is for you to express to God things in your heart that english (or human language) cannot fully express. It isn't meant for others to understand. So, you wouldn't "see" the miracle unless you experienced the gift (otherwise it sounds like gibberish).

i've seen ppl prayed over and fall down.  i kinda think it's real since my friend went up and it happened to her, although she seemed a bit wierd after it.

This has happened to me, and yes it is real. It is "resting in the Spirit". I'm sure there are phonies, but with all gifts there are abuses.

And a Charism is simply a gift. It is a gift of the Spirit. One of those gifts is LOVE!

So - unless you don't love, then you are Charismatic!

We are all Charismatic. But as of late many Charisms, including love, are dying out. That is why the "movement" is called the Charismatic RENEWAL! That is, they are trying to bring Catholics back to a fuller proffesion of their own faith. It really should be called a Catholic renewal if you ask me.

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So, being Charismatic means you love a lot and you become much "fuller" in the faith rather than being a "pick and choose" Catholic.

Is it something like that? Maybe? :huh:

I am beginning to realize that there is a whole Catholic universe out there and I am just barely starting to understand it! :blink:

I sure hope RCIA helps me out... I am also beginning to understand why people need confirmation sponsors...

Thanks, Jake and friends.

peace,

~TF~

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So, being Charismatic means you love a lot and you become much "fuller" in the faith rather than being a "pick and choose" Catholic.

Is it something like that? Maybe?  :huh:

I am beginning to realize that there is a whole Catholic universe out there and I am just barely starting to understand it!  :blink:

I sure hope RCIA helps me out... I am also beginning to understand why people need confirmation sponsors...

Thanks, Jake and friends.

peace,

~TF~

So, being Charismatic means you love a lot and you become much "fuller" in the faith rather than being a "pick and choose" Catholic.

That's kinda the way I see it anyway! ;)

If you embrace the faith FULLY and don't "pick and choose", then you have no choice but to be Charismatic - in that if you are open to the fullness of the faith that Christ intended, then the Spirit will MOVE in you and around you!

Catholic doesn't always mean hiding in the back pew. BE LOUD ABOUT YOUR FAITH!

It's a renewal in the faith of the Apostles! Evangelizing, recieveing the gift of the Spirit and praying for others to recieve it.

There really should be no term "Charismatic", as it is an inseperable part of simply being Catholic.

Unfortunatly 1) "Catholics" aren't always Catholic, and they prefer to "pick and choose" as you mentioned. and 2) a few "Charismatic" wackos go crazy and start being "moved" by the Spirit outside the bounds of Catholic Teaching (which isn't really being moved by the Spirit).

So we have a double distortion. Catholic isn't really what it means and Charismatic isn't really what it means. If you are faithful to the Catholic Church, then you are Charismatic. If you are Charismatic and unfaithful to the Church, then you 1 aren't Catholic, and 2 aren't Charismatic.

That's my take on it...

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There are a great number of protestant denominations which are charismatic and believe that all the gifts of the Spirit can be seen today - healing, speaking in tongues, visions etc. I was not aware that there is a movement like this in the Catholic Church too. In my experience, it is wise to 'test' this with scripture and (as I've learnt from this board!) the traditions of the church.

A funny story for you! Many years ago I belonged to a Charismatic church and a friend going to the church for the first time asked me what she should expect from the service. I told her pretty much anything goes though you won't see people on their knees like you might in a traditional church service. Of course, we arrived a little late to find the whole congregation on their knees - it was the only time this ever happened while I attended that church! God has a great sense of humour!

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There are a great number of protestant denominations which are charismatic and believe that all the gifts of the Spirit can be seen today - healing, speaking in tongues, visions etc.  I was not aware that there is a movement like this in the Catholic Church too.  In my experience, it is wise to 'test' this with scripture and (as I've learnt from this board!) the traditions of the church.

A funny story for you! Many years ago I belonged to a Charismatic church and a friend going to the church for the first time asked me what she should expect from the service.  I told her pretty much anything goes though you won't see people on their knees like you might in a traditional church service. Of course, we arrived a little late to find the whole congregation on their knees - it was the only time this ever happened while I attended that church! God has a great sense of humour!

LOL!

That would be a good one! Perfect timing, eh? God does that some times.

Anyway.

As for other non-Catholic Churches being Charismatic...

They may have Charisms (that is gifts of the Spirit). The gifts are given freely. But with ALL gifts, they can be abused. Of course, sure, Protestant's may use the gifts for GREAT benefits to God and others... But without the Church to channel and guide your "movement", you can be easily "moved" outside of the will of the Spirit, which can be very damaging to you and others. That is true even with Catholics - they can be "moved" to go contrary to Catholic teachings.

For instance, if I'm "moved" to yell at the top of my lungs during the Consecration at Mass. That is NOT of the Spirit, even though I might have orignially been moved by the Spirit.

Outside the confines of the Catholic Church, the Spirit **May** move. But there is no difinitive line between His Will and yours. You can be taken for a fool by Satan, who can easily come to you disguised as an angel of light. If you are following the Catholic Church, there is no "gray" area.

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