Kilroy the Ninja Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 Great post Marielapin! Agreed totally! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jrob8503 Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 (edited) I am also going through doubt. It ranges from God not existing to God not caring at all. I no longer trust the word of any man and have asked God for a personal miracle. I've grown tired of people saying you can see God in the beauty of nature or in the goodness of people. I want to see God or one of his miracles for myself. Why is the Church so skeptical of all modern miracles until they are rigorously examined? There was no intensive study of Jesus' miracles, yet refuting them is a heresy. Why do some of the Church's teachings evolve as we discover more about the world? Why wouldn't God have lead the Pope to a concrete set of rules from the get go, so things like the Crusades would be prevented? I'm also starting to think this whole "free will" idea is just an explaination for why God doesn't reveal himself to the entire world. If people for a fact God exisited, I doubt they would violate his will. Instead it's taught that God gives people the option, and those who don't are rejecting him through their free will. So in turn, hell was concieved to scare everyone on the straight and narrow. Believe in all the subtle hints that God drops once in a while or you are damned. If He were to knock me off my horse and say "knock it off", then I would follow unyieldingly. But chances are He won't, and I have no reason to believe in Him if He doesn't. Maybe he should stop appearing to devout peasants who don't need proof of his existence and start scaring the hell out of people who are about to commit grave sins. Say to the entire world, "This is me and I am inDouche here. No cut this carp out and start living the way I told you". That's much more effective than having other human beings tell you and putting your trust in them. I'd assure you this world would change forever if He just said, "Here I am". This whole experience hasn't been liberating, as most who go through this claim. I haven't had the urge to commit mortal sin (even though nonbelief is considered mortal sin ) nor feel good about not being bound by rules. I think the Church has gone so far to prove why it's philosophical elements apply so well to human life, that I see no reason to believe in the theology. If this way of life isn't just "because God said so", then why believe in God. Long post. Edited October 23, 2003 by jrob8503 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marielapin Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 Why is the Church so skeptical of all modern miracles until they are rigorously examined? Why do some of the Church's teachings evolve as we discover more about the world? Why wouldn't God have lead the Pope to a concrete set of rules from the get go, so things like the Crusades would be prevented? Jrob, the reason why miracles are investigated it to find out if they are from God and not from Satan. Satan has the power to appear as someone Holy, but to preach false statements. The Church can never be too careful, because Satan likes to use un-obvious ways to put doubt in its members. Can you give me some examples of "evolving" Church teachings? We do have a concrete set of rules, which have not changed. Anything "new"added to the teachings to the Church, were added because of changes in society, for example, birth control. The Church was opposed to birth control from the get go, but when the "pill" came out it issued a formal teaching on the matter. This is not the evolution of the Church, but the evolution of society. The Church is outside of time. Its teachings do not change. It is the society outside of it that does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jrob8503 Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 (edited) OK. Then why are the miracles of Jesus just taken as they are? Wasn't prostituion once considered a "necessary evil" by the Church? It isn't today. The Church has also gone through the Counter Reformation and two Vatican Councils. Changes have taken place within the Church. If God wanted His message to be spread in the best way possible? Why were these held? Why didn't He just say, "This is how I want it done"? Please, correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not asking this quesitons out of malice, just curiousity. Edited October 23, 2003 by jrob8503 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 Wasn't prostituion once considered a "necessary evil" by the Church? It isn't today. where did the Church in its official teachings say this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jrob8503 Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 I heard on some A&E special. I think it was called "Sex and the Bible". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 I heard on some A&E special. I think it was called "Sex and the Bible". A&E is not a reliable source of church teaching....did they give specific references/examples??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marielapin Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 Wasn't prostituion once considered a "necessary evil" by the Church? It isn't today. The Church has also gone through the Counter Reformation and two Vatican Councils. Changes have taken place within the Church. If God wanted His message to be spread in the best way possible? Why were these held? Why didn't He just say, "This is how I want it done"? Please, correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not asking this quesitons out of malice, just curiousity. "Wasn't prostituion once considered a "necessary evil" by the Church? " I have never heard of this. The idea in and of itself is quite disturbing and is contrary to any teachings I have heard of. To me, this would be like saying masturbation is ok because it releases sexual tension. The Church simply does not teach this. I would not take an A&E specials word on this. If I have time later, I'll look into it. "The Church has also gone through the Counter Reformation and two Vatican Councils." This is true. The Counter Reformation's intention was to clarify, and enforce the Church's teachings, in light of the "Reformers" and their teachings. They were not changing or evolving teachings in any way. On the contrary, the Counter Reformation stopped the illegal practices that were called into question, re-affirmed the teachings of the Church, and clarified questions brought up by the "Reformers". The Vatican Councils also clarified and reinforced teachings, as well as changing some disciplines. This is not the same as changing teachings. The stance of the Church on the Bible, interpretation of the Bible, Authority, the Sacraments, etc have never changed. What has changed, is whether the priest faces the front or the back, if the Mass is spoken in Latin or the vernacular, whether you can receive the Eucharist standing or kneeling, etc. There is a huge difference in changing disciplines and changing teachings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marielapin Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 From the Catechism: 2355. "Prostitution does injury to the dignity of the person who engages in it, reducing the person to an instrument of sexual pleasure. The one who pays sins gravely against himself: he violates the chastity to which his Baptism pledged him and defiles his body, the temple of the Holy Spirit.[Cf. 1 Cor 6:15-20 .] Prostitution is a social scourge. It usually involves women, but also men, children, and adolescents (The latter two cases involve the added sin of scandal.). While it is always gravely sinful to engage in prostitution, the imputability of the offense can be attenuated by destitution, blackmail, or social pressure. " To view the context, please visit http://www.christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/sixth...h.html#CHASTITY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTHUS Posted October 24, 2003 Author Share Posted October 24, 2003 Had you recently spoken with non catholics before you had this dream? Because thats what one of thier stories - The old Whore of Babylon Story. Try not to succumb to these tales for they really are lies. It takes a long time for one to really understand the book of revalations. A lot of people take and twist these stories for the benefit of thier denomination. People love to attack the church with all the little things they feel are wrong with the church. But youll notice they never really attack the core. The churches creation and whom created her. Had you recently spoken with non catholics before you had this dream? Because thats what one of thier stories - The old Whore of Babylon Story. Try not to succumb to these tales for they really are lies. It takes a long time for one to really understand the book of revalations. A lot of people take and twist these stories for the benefit of thier denomination. People love to attack the church with all the little things they feel are wrong with the church. But youll notice they never really attack the core. The churches creation and whom created her. Well, yeah, I had, but they're not anti-Catholic. I go to an Anglican school, and my best friend, Luke, goes to my former non-denominational church. But he's always been respectful of my beliefs. I think what brought up the "whore of babylon" dream (well I was sort of half asleep at the time, it was more of a daydream from which I woke up and was freaked out, and immediately thought of the catholic church) was my subconscious remembrance of the Jack Chick tracts I had been exposed to when I first converted to Catholicism (i.e. the death cookie tract). In fact, the Catholics in my parish have treated me with more mercy and kindness than in my non-denom church, which was cliquey and disgustingly secular. It's the DOCTRINES that Im not sure about. Sure, the Church affirms Creedal faith (as someone said), but its everything else outside of the Creed that Im not sure about... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 And now, everyone, you can see why it is so important to guard our eyes (and ears, etc.) and be careful what errors and dangers we expose ourselves to. No matter what we may think we've dismissed, our subconscious mind retains it. Being awake, we may laugh at the Chick tracts, but they are diabolical, and they do work on people, consciously or subconsciously. ICTHUS, the very best thing that you can you (and I hope I don't sound like a broken record) is to sit quietly in front of Our Lord Jesus Christ in the Most Blessed Sacrament. Just sit quietly, and let your heart and mind be open to Christ Jesus. "Be still, and know that I am God." Ps. 46:11 Jrob, I see your spiritual struggle as very different from ICTHUS'. He is trying to reason out God in his mind, which we cannot really do. Sometimes we just have to be still and wait for God to answer our questions. We don't have all the answers. Sometimes, He just expects us to trust. It does no good to win an argument with a protestant, but lose your Faith and spiritual peace of mind in the process. Jrob, your situation seems more one of rebellion than doubt. God doesn't reveal Himself to most mortal sinners, and that is His perogative. He is All-Knowing, not us. Why didn't the Church challenge Christ's miracles? Are you kidding? Christ established the Church! His first priests acknowledged that He was the Son of God, the Promised One, the Messiah! They proclaimed this Good News, and baptized in His Name. They celebrated the Sacraments He instituted. Jesus is Lord. There is no need to check Him out to see if He is legit. But other miracles must be checked out. The Church won't proclaim something unless they are absolutely certain of it. Miracles happen every day that the Church doesn't investigate or make pronouncements upon. But if you need to know if some phenomena was truly a miracle, the only way to know for sure is if the Church has placed her seal of approval on it. The Church doesn't micromanage every aspect of your life. You're expected to do a little thinking and choosing on your own. She just guides us all, so that we may think rightly and choose wisely. But we have the choice to choose otherwise. Maybe instead of listening to what those outside the Church say the Church says, look at what the Church actually says. A&E are hardly experts on Catholicism. The Church is a living organization. As we live, we grow, we change. However, the Church's Teachings have not changed. We haven't invented new doctrines other than what Christ Himself believed and taught, and we have not changed one single jot or tittle of His Word. The Church has preserved and safeguarded the Truth, sharing it with the world. It's the world who's been twisting It and contorting It. Oh, and yes, everyone has doubts and crises in Faith every now and again. We are all vulnerable to attack. Don't you think Satan and his legion, who roam about the world like lions, seeking to devour souls, are watchful of our actions and words, and attempt to mislead us with them? Frequent use of the Sacraments is a powerful weapon against them. Pax Christi. <>< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 Amen, sista! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleflower+JMJ Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 exactly anna!! do not open those doors that you know are false already to strengthen those doubts that you know are not true. because to feed your doubts is just digging yourself deeper into a hole that you have dug for yourself. and thats not what you want. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleflower+JMJ Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 I heard on some A&E special. I think it was called "Sex and the Bible". always find out from the Catholic CHurch herself, and not from anyone else. let this known that you go and find out what the Catholic Church teaches, and NOT what someone thinks it does. a&E is not one of those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleflower+JMJ Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 I spoke to a priest in Confession about what I had been doing and what I was going through and he told me to consider reading Story of a Soul, by St. Therese of Lisieux. Since I was really almost anti-Catholic at the time, I tried reading it with a lot of skepticism, but that novel really openned my heart up back to the Church in so many ways. It was that very book which made me realize the awe and wonder of Christ that we Catholics have in the 7 Sacraments, a treasure that no other denomination has - it was this especially that brought me back home to the Church. amesome!! :wub: :wub: st. therese, the little flower... pray for us!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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