mulls Posted July 12, 2003 Share Posted July 12, 2003 (edited) While talking with a skeptic at school this past semester, I told him about Jesus, the gospel, salvation, etc. He seemed to understand everything, except the "faith" part. He would say things like, "Well, you seem to have great faith, but I don't have any. If you need faith to go to heaven, it's not fair that you just have it but I don't. It's like God gave it to you but he didn't give it to me." He seemed genuinely upset that he didn't have faith, and that for some reason he just couldn't bring himself to believe. He seemed upset at God for this. What would your reaction to him be? Edited July 12, 2003 by mulls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna Posted July 12, 2003 Share Posted July 12, 2003 QUOTE: It's like God gave it to you but He didn't give it to me. This person is on the money. Faith is a gift from God. Depending on the person, I might tell them, "We can always ask God for the gift of faith." Or, "I'd be happy to pray that God gives you the gift of faith." God bless him for being upset! Now's the time to move in on him in prayer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted July 12, 2003 Share Posted July 12, 2003 Well, you could approach him with scientific and historical reasons for having faith... but then you'd be persuading him to be Catholic. hahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Douglas Posted July 12, 2003 Share Posted July 12, 2003 Try having him go to http://www.newadvent.org/summa/3.htm Sometimes proofs help an analytical person see something in a different way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Posted July 12, 2003 Share Posted July 12, 2003 (edited) The Apostles asked Jesus, "Lord, increase our faith." Luke 17:5 Also: Luke 11:9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. 10 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. So tell your friend to asketh! Pax Christ. <>< Edited July 12, 2003 by Anna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katholikos Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 While talking with a skeptic at school this past semester, I told him about Jesus, the gospel, salvation, etc. He seemed to understand everything, except the "faith" part. He would say things like, "Well, you seem to have great faith, but I don't have any. If you need faith to go to heaven, it's not fair that you just have it but I don't. It's like God gave it to you but he didn't give it to me." He seemed genuinely upset that he didn't have faith, and that for some reason he just couldn't bring himself to believe. He seemed upset at God for this. What would your reaction to him be? Begin at the beginning. God exists. The suggestion that you use the five proofs for the existence of God by St. Thomas Aquinas is excellent. You should learn them. You might give your friend C.S. Lewis's little book "Mere Christianity." (Lewis was an atheist who became a Christian and joined the Church of England. His faith is called Anglican. But his beliefs were Catholic. His books are very popular with Evangelicals.) You might want to read "Mere Christianity" yourself. You can't expect someone to believe in Jesus if they have no concept of God. Then move to Judaism. In other words, follow the historical sequence: God-Judaism-Christ-Catholic Church-Bible. As for believing the Bible, my response would be the same as St. Augustine's (A.D. 354-430): "For my part, I should not believe the Gospel except as moved by the authority of the Catholic Church." Letter to Mani How do you convince someone that the Bible is the Word of God when the only evidence of that is the Catholic Church's declaration, and you deny the authority of the Church? I'm really curious to know how you explain the Bible without the Church. The Catholic Church wrote the NT, canonized both the OT and the NT, and formed the first Bible when she was nearly 400 years old. You have to explain where we got the Bible to thinking people -- we got the Bible from the Catholic Church. It didn't fall out of heaven. To be logical, you've gotta explain that the NT confirms the Christian Faith, but it isn't its source. The Church is. It takes a long time to learn all this. Instantaneous salvation is a hard sell to inquiring minds. "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved," is not the entire story. The whole of God's revelation (Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition) is true, not just John 3:16. Faith is a gift, but one does not receive it with closed hands and heart. It's not that God doesn't offer it to everyone, but some are not ready to receive the gift. Pray for the willingness to accept God's gift of faith. And TRUTH. Peace be with you. JMJ Jay (Likos) Katholikos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 That is a pretty good point. Your friend's Faith may actually be stronger than yours, mulls, if he is shown something worth believing in. If things don't all add up, historically, chronologically, etc., then why should he believe in it? One must begin with God's promise to Abraham, then the fulfillment of His promise in Christ, and Christ's institution of a Church, which wrote it all down and passed it on... Your friend needs some facts to digest, so that he has something to believe in. Or, how about inviting your friend to PhatMass?????? We don't bite! We just gnaw a little... Pax Christi. <>< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katholikos Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 Anna, JMJ Jay (Likos) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulls Posted July 14, 2003 Author Share Posted July 14, 2003 As for believing the Bible, my response would be the same as St. Augustine's (A.D. 354-430): "For my part, I should not believe the Gospel except as moved by the authority of the Catholic Church." Letter to Mani what a shame. if this is true for the majority of people, i would like to see the Catholic church make a drastic attempt to evangelize the entire world, immediately, or I suppose millions will be lost. And as for this young man I was conversing with, he- wasn't really a friend of mine, as this was the first conversation we ever really had. He was an RA in one of my friend's dorms, and late one night me and my friend were studying for our final on the next day. This guy came into the room, and somehow the subject of the bible came up, and we began talking. This conversation lasted all night, we finished at about 7a.m., and I went to take my final at 8 a.m with no sleep! Anyways, this guy was graduating, and was moving across country in a few days, so most likely I will never see or hear from him again. I told him I would pray for him, and I believe that I was able to plant a few seeds. I hope that God will take him the rest of the way. And by the way, I aced my final and got an A in my Greek Civilzation class. haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasJis Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 We all are given the ability to recognize and accept faith. We cloud and confuse ourselves with lies and pride. We have free will to embrace the gift or leave it. Faith starts small and is fostered to growth. The first step is recognizing how little faith we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 How did you define faith - intellectually or emotionally? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 what a shame. if this is true for the majority of people, i would like to see the Catholic church make a drastic attempt to evangelize the entire world, immediately, or I suppose millions will be lost. Open your eyes, dear mulls. We're doing it! The pope, even in his old age, travels far and wide spreading the Good News...not the altered good news, but the Original, Apostolic version. We Catholics, for our part, are doing the same, using the internet. Some folks just won't listen. I extend to you, in a special way, Mulls, yet another invitation to return to the Church, to attend Mass now that it's meaning and the historical richness of the Faith has been presented to you. St. Augustine was right. We do not base our Faith on the book that the Church compiled, we base our Faith on the Church's authority to have compiled the book in the first place!!! What other denomination has the right to declare certain books sacred, and others not sacred? And where do they get this authority to make such declarations? The Catholic Church received her authority from Jesus Christ. Please accept my sincere invitation. You don't know what you're missing! Pax Christi. <>< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeSoul Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 OOOH MAN. I am praying for that skeptic. real bad. right now. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyful Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 The Apostles asked Jesus, "Lord, increase our faith." Luke 17:5 Also: Luke 11:9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. 10 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. So tell your friend to asketh! Pax Christ. <>< Are there any circumstances that God might not give faith to those who ask? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 Are there any circumstances that God might not give faith to those who ask? Ask and you shall recieve , knock and it will be opened unto you. That doesn't sound conditional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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