Catholictothecore Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 This is something that theologians and philosphers have talked on for ages. I believe I am correct in saying that there is one, fullness of truth, and the completeness of the that truth is found only in the holy, apostalic, Catholic Church, which is the mystical body of Christ. (Reasons right, though I'm not speaking verbatum on anything. It has to be in the CCC [i][u]somewhere[/i][/u]!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phazzan Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 [quote name='Renz' date='Apr 20 2005, 02:41 PM'] Science is an "absolute truth"? You're joking, right? At one time science thought that the Sun revolved around the Earth. [/quote] Observable, testable, experimental and theoretical explanation of phenomena. In other words science. Absolute truth can be found in science, but faith cannot be tested, measured or verified. Factual science is objective, faith is enitrely subjective. [quote]There are also self-refutation problems with the statement, "There are no absolute truths, only perceptions". For instance, the statement itself...is it a perception, or an absolute truth? If a perception, [b]then I suppose my perception differs from yours[/b] - but if truth, then it is completely self-refuting.[/quote] My point exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phazzan Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 [quote name='slywakka250' date='Apr 20 2005, 02:57 PM'] in science nothing is ever proven, all is a theory. Absolute Truth exists, without it, I don't see how anything could exist. [/quote] If science is all theory then what the heck is truth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 [quote name='Phazzan' date='Apr 20 2005, 03:15 PM'] Observable, testable, experimental and theoretical explanation of phenomena. In other words science. Absolute truth can be found in science, but faith cannot be tested, measured or verified. Factual science is objective, faith is enitrely subjective. My point exactly. [/quote] Faith is not entirely subjective. That is nonsense. To take a very simple instance, either God exists or He does not exist. His objective existance or non-existance does not depend on whether or not people beleive in Him. Christians and atheists can't both be right. (Check out the debate tables for proof!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catholictothecore Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 (for some reason I have a sense of forboding about this thread) Like I said, theologians and philosophers have been talking about this for millenia...truth is right, correct? It's...complicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Wednesday Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 You bet your bippy there is an absolute truth. If there is no absolute truth, there would be no absolute right or wrong, and our actions wouldn't really matter in the big picture of the cosmos. I was just thinking of this earlier today because I have a friend who doesn't like Ratzinger/Pope Benedict (sorry, this is going to take a while to get used to) because he had the "nerve" to reaffirm Extra Ecclesium Nullus Sallus -- a very hotly debated and misunderstood dogma of the Church. She couldn't understand how someone can proclaim a "copyright on the truth." How can anyone, let alone a religious institution, expect to be taken seriously if they just said "this is what I believe because this is how I perceive it. It doesn't mean it's right from your own point of view"? [quote] I believe we create our own truth, that is ultimately our perception. [/quote] You're creating your own [i]perceptions[/i] of the truth. It doesn't change the truth itself. Someone could perceive the murder of a man, or rape of a woman to be justifiable through their own "perception" of the truth. Does that make them right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasJis Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 The idea that Truth is 'perception' is idiotic and completely unscientific. Phazzan is also mis-quoting the philosophy. Scientific Truth and Absolute Truth exists, but we may be limited in our ability to measure, quantify, or comprehend it. The philosophy about no Truth (there is a name for it, but I forget at the moment) is really we cannot know the Absolute Truth because our abilities are limited and so our perspective is limited. An example is the Truth of Sound of a tree falling. It depends upon how our abilities can define or quantify it. If our definition is about mass movement, energy being released causing vibrations in the air (if present), then there is a sound. Our perception, which is the effect of the vibrations that move the eardrum, small bones, nerve stimulation, brain congninzence, etc., is limited. A deaf person can still feel vibrations in their body and know there is sound. But the point is, our ability to percieve the physical world has no participation with the moving mass, the presence of atmosphere, the energy released, the atmosphere being affected by the energy, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catholictothecore Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 ohh.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phazzan Posted April 21, 2005 Share Posted April 21, 2005 [quote name='Socrates' date='Apr 20 2005, 03:21 PM'] Faith is not entirely subjective. That is nonsense. To take a very simple instance, either God exists or He does not exist. His objective existance or non-existance does not depend on whether or not people beleive in Him. [/quote] The tenets of faith (i.e. belief in a superior being, God, Jesus, virgin Mary) are entirely subjective. Faith itself is within reason and plausible, but it cannot be tested, measured and/or verified... unlike the sciences. Your perception is your own reality, because truth is not a quantity but an abstract concept. If God did not create 'truth' then it was man-made, and if it was man-made then it was [i]perceived[/i] by man such a thing exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pio Nono Posted April 21, 2005 Share Posted April 21, 2005 [quote name='Phazzan' date='Apr 21 2005, 05:29 AM'] The tenets of faith (i.e. belief in a superior being, God, Jesus, virgin Mary) are entirely subjective. Faith itself is within reason and plausible, but it cannot be tested, measured and/or verified... unlike the sciences. Your perception is your own reality, because truth is not a quantity but an abstract concept. If God did not create 'truth' then it was man-made, and if it was man-made then it was [i]perceived[/i] by man such a thing exists. [/quote] JMJ 4/21 - St. Anselm But will you answer the rest of my objections? Your idea about perceptions is all wrong - check my last post. When I said my perception must be different from yours, that was hardly a concession - read the entirety of my post and respond to that first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now