Triple Crown Tiara

[stargirl3:16]

[quote name='God Conquers' date='Apr 20 2005, 06:26 PM'] BLING BLING BLING!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh man.... that would automatically make the cover art of the next phatmass album.... especially if he had them install "The Pope is Dope" in latin in diamonds around the bottom. [/quote]
Hmm...what would that be?

[Guest Eremite]

I hope the tiara is dead and gone.

The last thing we need is for the Bishop of Rome to recover this lavish show of worldly glory.

We need the Pope to manifest himself as the humble fisherman of Galilee, not some temporal ruler.

[dUSt]

[quote name='1337 k4th0l1x0r' date='Apr 25 2005, 12:37 AM'] Triple Crown Tiara? I didn't know Ratzinger has entered the Kentucky Derby, much less the Preakness and the Belmont Stakes.

What does horse racing have to do with the popes? I'll tell you. The last triple crown winner was in 1978, before JP2 (or JP1) was elected pope. It would be very interesting, and quite coincidental, if a triple crown was won this spring. [/quote]
*insert sympathy laugh here*

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='Eremite' date='Apr 25 2005, 09:32 AM'] I hope the tiara is dead and gone.

The last thing we need is for the Bishop of Rome to recover this lavish show of worldly glory.

We need the Pope to manifest himself as the humble fisherman of Galilee, not some temporal ruler. [/quote]
The Pope is a temporal Ruler. He is the Vicar of Christ, and his Authority extends above all others both in matters of the Spiritual and in matters Corpral. To deny that role is to deny the authority of Christ.

[toledo_jesus]

I think they sold the crown and gave the money to the poor.

[Guest Eremite]

The temporal authority of the Bishop of Rome does not necessitate displays of worldly glory. The Spiritual supercedes the temporal. The spiritual office of the Bishop of Rome as the fisherman of Galilee supercedes any temporal authority he may have. His bearing should reflect that (particularly today, when his temporal authority is largely as a figurehead).

"He who humbles himself will be exalted; and he who exalts himself will be humbled"

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='Eremite' date='Apr 25 2005, 10:21 AM'] The temporal authority of the Bishop of Rome does not necessitate displays of worldly glory. The Spiritual supercedes the temporal. The spiritual office of the Bishop of Rome as the fisherman of Galilee supercedes any temporal authority he may have. His bearing should reflect that (particularly today, when his temporal authority is largely as a figurehead).

"He who humbles himself will be exalted; and he who exalts himself will be humbled" [/quote]
Temporal Glory has little if anything to do with a lack of humility, St. Thomas Becket wore the silk over garments for the people and a hair shirt undneath for his own benifit.

[Guest Eremite]

[quote]Temporal Glory has little if anything to do with a lack of humility, St. Thomas Becket wore the silk over garments for the people and a hair shirt undneath for his own benifit.[/quote]

In themselves, no, they do not indicate anything about a person's humility, or lack thereof. They do, however, set the tone by which that the Church presents herself to the world. This is why diocesan priests make a promise of simplicity.

The temporal authority of the Pope in the modern world, as I said, is largely that of a figurehead. His role today is overwhelmingly that of a fisher of souls, and it is appropriate that his demeanor reflect that.

Edited April 25, 2005 by Eremite

[Guest Eremite]

Some good thoughts from Catholic blogger Amy Welborn on the pomp of the Roman Pontiff:

[url="http://amywelborn.typepad.com/openbook/2005/04/the_view_on_the.html"]http://amywelborn.typepad.com/openbook/200...iew_on_the.html[/url]

[Noel's angel]

MC Just, can I just say that your sig rocks and the Pope looks so cool in it, that is all

[Pio Nono]

JMJ
4/25 - St. Mark the Evangelist

For whatever reason, the tiara was dropped after the Council. It's not in the rite anymore. It'd be nice if a lot of things came back (i.e. the old Roman Rite from its pre-Gallic days), but what we have in front of us is what is normative and what the Church deems best for us in this time. Let's stop complaining about our Mother.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='Eremite' date='Apr 25 2005, 10:51 AM']
In themselves, no, they do not indicate anything about a person's humility, or lack thereof. They do, however, set the tone by which that the Church presents herself to the world. This is why diocesan priests make a promise of simplicity.

The temporal authority of the Pope in the modern world, as I said, is largely that of a figurehead. His role today is overwhelmingly that of a fisher of souls, and it is appropriate that his demeanor reflect that. [/quote]
It is fitting that the Popes demeanor reflect the Glory of God, and the Authority granted to him by God, as the Vicar of Christ, the Pope has Authority over all temporal rulers of Christian lands, therefore he should act as if he has that Authority, Because temporal Powers do not recongnize right Authority does not mean it does not exist, likewise, since the Pope has said Authority He is obligated to exercise it. The Tiara is a symbol of that Authority and in this age when visual symbology is at it's strongest he should be making use of it. The Pope is a King and he is anything but a figurehead in his domain, he is by Feudal right one of the greatest land owners in the world, and he has absolute power over those domains. If you understood the Church and it's workings you would never say he is a figurehead.

[toledo_jesus]

"Pope Paul VI was the last pontiff to wear a tiara. At the end of the Second Vatican Council, he descended the steps of the papal throne in St Peter's Basilica and laid the tiara on the altar in a dramatic gesture of humility and as a sign of the renunciation of human glory and power in keeping with the renewed spirit of the Second Vatican Council. It marked a renunciation of one of the three possible reasons for the existence of the three tiers of the crown; secular power, which in any case had ended in 1870 when the Papal States joined the rest of Italy to form the Kingdom of Italy. Popes initially refused to accept their loss of the Papal States. In an act of defiance, they refused to leave the Vatican, describing themselves melodramatically as the 'prisoner in the Vatican'. Paul's removal of his tiara was intended to forever symbolise the papacy's renunciation of any desire for secular power.

Pope Paul's decision to abandon the use of one of the most striking symbols of the papacy, the Papal Tiara, proved highly controversial with conservative Catholics, many of whom continue to campaign for its re-instatement. Some indeed branded him an anti-pope, arguing that no valid pope would surrender the papal tiara. At least one 'claimant' to the papacy after Paul VI's death, Clemente Domínguez y Gómez, of the conservative catholic Palmar de Troya movement, and who was 'proclaimed' as 'Pope Gregory XVII' by his followers in Seville, Spain in 1978, was 'crowned' using a 'new' 'papal tiara', showing the power of its symbolism. A rival antipope, Pius XIII of the 'True Catholic Church' has made use of the tiara on his coat of arms."


the way I see it, a king can choose not to wear a crown if he wants. The popes have chosen to put aside the tiara, so there.

[Q the Ninja]

In Latin he uses the royal "We."

[Ash Wednesday]

I can't help but wonder if the intent now of omitting the crown could be a sign to show that the Church is still relevant in the world today.

The kind of royalty in the sense that receive "ceremonial crowning" these days are publicly regarded as nothing more than irrelevant ceremonial figures that hold no significant authority or governing power.

Just speculating.