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Triple Crown Tiara


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Don John of Austria

[quote name='Pio Nono' date='Apr 25 2005, 07:04 PM'] JMJ
4/25 - St. Mark the Evangelist

I'm not taking sides here, but if you're going to claim to argue philosophically, give me a philosophical argument.  I don't see an argument here, just a series of assertions, one after the other. [/quote]
I didn't make a philosophical arguement, I stated that that is the philosophiical distinction in the West. If you would like coroberation of that read Frederick Wilhelmsen founding Chair of Philosophy at University of Dallas.. it is the fundemental reason that in republics the executive branch has always been given power and the legeslative has been give Authority. In Christendom the Church had Authority and the king had the Power. Any decent medieval historian can tell you this is so.

Or for that matter you could read Plato's Republic where it is addressed quite early on.

Edited by Don John of Austria
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Don John of Austria

[quote name='Eremite' date='Apr 25 2005, 07:39 PM'] Fidei,

Americans know how to survive. Whether the war for independence, the depression, or terrorism.

The Pope, God bless his soul, would be signing his own death certificate if he tried to take on the United States. [/quote]
Really it wasn't that long ago that the Cardnial of New York bent that State to his will with that same siomple threat, " fine then I'll close the schools Monday" and that was only the schools in New york City. Now if you think that the United States would kill the Pope for such an act you might be right but I seriously doubt it.

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Don John of Austria

[quote]A crown is a material thing. By itself, it does nothing. The modern Roman Pontiffs have had absolutely no problem exercising their temporal duties in the modern world, from the appointment of Bishops to any other necessary duty. Walking around in crowns would not get them any more power or rights than they already possess.[/quote]

So is a Chalice should we get rid of those as well.

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[quote name='Cam42' date='Apr 25 2005, 07:12 PM'] Not to be a total drag Pio, but it is still a possiblity. Just because the John Paul's didn't use the tiara doesn't mean that it has been abrogated.

The possbility still exists. Although I don't think that Benedict XVI chose to do this.

And I agree that we need to stop complaining about our Blessed Mother.

Cam [/quote]
JMJ
4/25 - St. Mark the Evangelist

I'm not trying to be a drag either - I'd LOVE to see them break out that tiara. ;) All I'm saying is that we shouldn't complain about what we've got in front of us, that's all. And some people are just complaining about our Mother, the Church, and I'm just telling them to stop. :P

Besides, I like the fact that they brought back the traditional pallium for the Pope. Very medieval-looking. ;)

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Don John of Austria

[quote name='Pio Nono' date='Apr 25 2005, 08:22 PM'] JMJ
4/25 - St. Mark the Evangelist

I'm not trying to be a drag either - I'd LOVE to see them break out that tiara. ;) All I'm saying is that we shouldn't complain about what we've got in front of us, that's all. And some people are just complaining about our Mother, the Church, and I'm just telling them to stop. :P

Besides, I like the fact that they brought back the traditional pallium for the Pope. Very medieval-looking. ;) [/quote]
I am not complaining about the Church and I am certianlynot complaining about his Holiness, I am contesting the Anti Tiara faction nothing more.

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Don John ---
why is it so important that the Pope be crowned? you speak of the Pope's temporal power/rule, but is that less diminished when he is not crowned? isn't it more in keeping with Christ's message to have sold the tiara and given the revenue to the poor?

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Don John of Austria

[quote name='dspen2005' date='Apr 25 2005, 08:31 PM'] Don John ---
isn't it more in keeping with Christ's message to have sold the tiara and given the revenue to the poor? [/quote]
No.

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[quote name='Pio Nono' date='Apr 25 2005, 08:22 PM'] JMJ
4/25 - St. Mark the Evangelist

I'm not trying to be a drag either - I'd LOVE to see them break out that tiara. ;) All I'm saying is that we shouldn't complain about what we've got in front of us, that's all. And some people are just complaining about our Mother, the Church, and I'm just telling them to stop. :P

Besides, I like the fact that they brought back the traditional pallium for the Pope. Very medieval-looking. ;) [/quote]
fair enuf.....

And for the record, I love the pallium....very traditional....very Pope Innocent III. Do a google image search.....

Cam

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toledo_jesus

it's not Anti-tiara. It's "is a hunk of metal with jewels stuck on it essential to our understanding of the pope's role?" we acknowledge his authority and that's all we need to do.
Most people don't live in the Feudal system anymore, Don John.

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Don John of Austria

[quote name='dspen2005' date='Apr 25 2005, 08:44 PM'] why not??? didn't Christ tell lazarus to sell his possessions to follow him? [/quote]
First it wasn't lazarus. Second Peter didn't sell his possesions his house is still his while he a follower of Jesus so that obvously wasn't a requirment. Third The Pope is the Vicar of Christ, simular to the Chalice ( not the same but simular) being made of precious metal, the Pope should be cloaked in all manner of finery to do so gives Glory to the Lord.

Mother Teresa was a follower of Christ but no more so than St. Louis ( perhaps not even as much so, we shall see if she is canonized[ although i doubt she won't be.) There are many roles to play in following Christ. Not all involve selling what one has and giving it to the poor. Remember the poor we will always have with us.

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Q the Ninja

[quote name='toledo_jesus' date='Apr 25 2005, 07:48 PM'] it's not Anti-tiara.  It's "is a hunk of metal with jewels stuck on it essential to our understanding of the pope's role?"  we acknowledge his authority and that's all we need to do.
Most people don't live in the Feudal system anymore, Don John. [/quote]
Dude, chill.

This is perfectly acceptable.

We live with Tradition, not against it. I think this "Vatican II" spirit has got to end.

This is not something that necessarily has to go away, and for those of us who would like to see it retained some day, that would be great.

Edited by Q the Ninja
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Don John of Austria

[quote name='toledo_jesus' date='Apr 25 2005, 08:48 PM'] it's not Anti-tiara. It's "is a hunk of metal with jewels stuck on it essential to our understanding of the pope's role?" we acknowledge his authority and that's all we need to do.
Most people don't live in the Feudal system anymore, Don John. [/quote]
Ah well then most people are ignorant louts, that being said it is irrelevent to the discussion.

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