Benedict XVI and Rock Music

[Didymus]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Apr 26 2005, 02:31 PM'] I whole-heartedly agree that rock/pop music has no place in the liturgy. [/quote]
I also assume that is what he is aiming at.

[Stceciliapray4us]

[quote name='001' date='Apr 22 2005, 07:04 PM'] Ratzinger was a nazi. [/quote]
Thank you for posting on the phorum. Every one here now has a reference point of a perfect example of ignorance.

[bookwyrm]

This thread reminded me of the other day when I saw this headline that said 'New Pope Topples Harry Potter' and I thought they meant that the pope said we couldn't read Harry Potter any more and I was so upset!!! But then I read the actual article and it was just talking about the bestseller list. Phew! Okay I'm done hijacking now.

BTW, 001, if you can say that Ratzinger was a Nazi, I have no problem saying you are an idiot.

[Phikoz]

if i eventually become a priest, and get a church that doesnt have an organ. im buying one.

[DemonSlayer]

What about positive-themed rock/metal?

[BeenaBobba]

[quote name='001' date='Apr 22 2005, 09:04 PM'] Ratzinger was a nazi. [/quote]
Have you seen [i]Schindler's List[/i]? The Nazis forced some Jews to act against other Jews. Does that mean that the Jews who were forced to act against their own people were Nazis? Of course not! Likewise, Ratzinger was no Nazi. Obviously, there is a difference between being forced into action and choosing action on one's own accord.

[geetarplayer]

Getting back to the topic at hand, I'm very impressed by Benny's thoughts on rock music in the liturgy. It makes a lot of sense.

-Mark

[davefromcm]

Been following this with a great deal of interest. My band mates and I have tried to write some music and we have introduced some into some of the Masses that we have done recently. It seems to have made an impact. Our criteria for the songs are that it has to be directly inspired/reflected from scripture. We have always cleared the lyrics with the priest before doing this. During Mass (other than the processional and recessional), we have tried to tone things down so that the focus is on the amazing miracle that is the Eucharist. Our communion hymn is one sung by us and is meant to help the people reflect... the lyrics are "Take My Body, I give it up for you, Take My Blood, I've poured it out for you. Take My Body, broken for you, Take My Blood, The covenant of Truth.... truly I am here, as I was at the cross, to die for your sins, I am God.... Surrender to me now, give me all that you are, I will be your strength, I am God". I know some will argue that this is Vox Dei, but the congregation is not singing. It is a very simple ballad and for most of Communion, it is instrumental to help those in prayer.

Now, I have read Pope Benedict's writings on this subject. For those of you who have been to Steubenville or Steubenville-type conferences (or many Charismatic conferences), you have probably seen "rock music" used effectively in Mass and seen it reach hundreds of youth. These people, in my opinion, do things in such a way to exactly accomplish what the Pope is talking about in this article...ie, to draw the focus on the Mass and not upon themselves.

I'd be interested in hearing some comments.

[jp2_rules]

i think it really depends on the context. as has been mentioned numerous times (and most recently by dave), the focus needs to be on the Mass, not the music/musicians. the music needs to lead the ppl to greater worship. in certain context, that may be through contemporary music. in other context, it may be through very traditional music. both can be used equally well to draw ppl into worship.
i personally find that contemporary music tends to lend itself toward a more charismatic form of worship. traditional music usually brings a more awe-inspiring sense of worship. both are different, and i think we should be able to worship in both 'styles', if you will. not saying that one is without the other, but the different types of music tend to lead ppl in a certain direction.
as to rock music, i don't think there's anything wrong with it, in and of itself. it could certainly be argued that it's not as beautiful as classical music. nothing is more inspiring than going to see a full orchestra play classical music. however, rock music is fun, and just has a different feel.
in our day and age, we need to take an interest in rock music, as a means of evangelization. and it can most certainly be just as positive as any other form of music.
to 001, i agree that randy rhoads was a great guitarist. no doubt if he (along w/ hendrix and many others) were still around, music, especially the guitar, would be even more revolutionized. however, your opinions on B16 need to be very, very seriously re-thought.

peace,
chris

[KnightoftheImmaculate1]

if i eventually become a priest, and get a church that doesnt have an organ. im buying one.

Me too.

That is what Im talking about. No rock or pop in the liturgy. We get enough time throughout the week to express ourselves, how hard is it to give one hour completely to what God wants to give us in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

Servvs Immaculatae

[p-hawk]

[quote name='davefromcm' date='Jun 2 2005, 02:54 PM']Now, I have read Pope Benedict's writings on this subject.  For those of you who have been to Steubenville or Steubenville-type conferences (or many Charismatic conferences), you have probably seen "rock music" used effectively in Mass and seen it reach hundreds of youth.  These people, in my opinion, do things in such a way to exactly accomplish what the Pope is talking about in this article...ie, to draw the focus on the Mass and not upon themselves.

I'd be interested in hearing some comments.
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[quote]"Rock", on the other hand, is the expression of elemental passions, and at rock festivals it assumes a cultic character, a form of worship, in fact, in opposition to Christian worship. People are, so to speak, released from themselves by the experience of being part of a crowd and by the emotional shock of rhythm, noise, and special lighting effects. However, in the ecstasy of having all their defenses torn down, the participants sink, as it were, beneath the elemental force of the universe. The music of the Holy Spirit's sober inebriation seems to have little chance when self has become a prison, the mind is a shackle, and breaking out from both appears as a true promise of redemption that can be tasted at least for a few moments
[/quote]

I have been to five (soon to be six) Steubenville conferences, two as a student and three as a chaperone. The first one especially was instrumental in my being as faithful as I am (and I am not nearly faithful enough!).

Then-Cardinal Ratzinger says in his quote that rock strips away defenses, and this is his (and my) biggest problem with it. If one's defenses are down, one can be supremely open to suggestion. Steubenville uses that defenselessness as a means to suggest the Holy Spirit. But to me, that seems like administering someone a date-rape drug and then dousing them in holy water. Your intentions are good, the outcome may even be good, but you have taken away, or at the very least undermined, the ability of the person to exercise free will. If a person is honestly seeking the truth, I would argue that drugs, sex, and rock music hinder their ability to listen to the Spirit.

Of course, "By your fruits you shall know them," and Steubenville conferences and charismatic worship have borne great fruits.

[i]Sacrosanctum Concilium[/i] declares that Gregorian chant should have "pride of place" in worship. I wish I had my copy of the Vatican II documents handy, but I'm at a coffee shop, or I would quote at greater length. So in this sense, primarily charismatically musiced Masses disobey the letter and probably the spirit of [i]Sacrosanctum Concilium[/i]. But then again, so does most music at most Masses, at least the ones in the two U.S. states I've lived in for any length of time.

Liturgical music is one of the thorniest, trickiest areas facing the Church today. Abortion is cut-and-dry in comparison.

[KnightoftheImmaculate1]

Just because possible musical abuse in the Mass is common doesn't mean you shouldn't fight it. Don't you find it sad that the majority of Catholic AMericans don't know the Gregorian Chant parts of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass? What happened to the Catholicity of the Church in that sense? Time for changes.

Servvs

[jp2_rules]

i think you're right, serws, but i think content of the songs is more important than the style. i don't think there is anything wrong w/ contemporary music (and just because it's labeled as 'contemporary', doesn't at all mean it's rock). i do, however think that content of songs could/should be changed to make it more appropriate.

p-hawk:

i don't think they were taking advantage of anything. you need to reach ppl where they are. for some, that music will draw them into the Church more. if someone has already taken a date rape drug, you can take that opportunity to witness to them instead of taking advantage.

[DemonSlayer]

But what does he think about Christian/Catholic rock?

[Oik]

All those in this thread, please contact the Chancellor of the La Crosse Diocese in Wisconsin, he has a great personal to share experience in this area.