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Nine women to defy Vatican to become priests


IXpenguin21

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IXpenguin21

[url="http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050608/lf_afp/canadavaticanwomenpriests_050608155049"]http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050608/lf_af...ts_050608155049[/url]

Nine women, including one Canadian and one American, plan to defy the Vatican and become the first female Roman Catholic priests and deacons ordained in North America during a ceremony on a boat on the St. Lawrence River next month.

The ceremony, which is not sanctioned by the Vatican, is to take place July 25 on the river near Gananoque in eastern Canada following a conference on women as priests at Carleton University in Ottawa.

The location for the ceremony was chosen because organizers considered it to be international waters between the United States and Canada where no diocese has juridiction and thus cannot interfere.

"I only have my faith and my hope and what the global scene says to me that I believe it's time to take this step," said former nun Michele Birch-Conery, 65, who was ordained as a deacon last year in Europe. She will be the first Canadian woman to be ordained as a priest next month.

"It is an immensely wounding part in our Catholic history to block women's ecclesiastical participation in orders. I think people have been closed to a deeper, fuller expression of their faith by having, in the hierarchy and levels of authority and decision-making, a male-only church," she said.

Fourteen women have already been ordained in similar river ceremonies in Europe in recent years and 65 others are planning to join their ranks soon.

The Vatican has refused to allow women becoming priests and reacted by excommunicating the first seven women ordained on the Danube River between Germany and Austria in 2003 after they refused to retract their vows.

But, two of the women, Christine Mayr-Lumetzberger of Austria and Gisela Forster of Germany, were later secretly ordained as bishops by their male counterparts in the Roman Catholic church, insists Birch-Conery.

The two women bishops will perform the St. Lawrence ordinations.

"This doesn't conform to the Catholic faith. Church teachings are clear: only men can be ordained," said Monseigneur Serge Poitras of the Apostolic Nunciature in Ottawa, noting that the former Pope John Paul II addressed the issue in 1994.

"People can do what they want. We don't have an army. We won't chase after them. All we can do is deplore such challenges to church doctrine and set the record straight," he said.

About 220 people will attend the ceremony and banquet aboard the boat which usually ferries tourists around the picturesque Thousand Islands on the St. Lawrence River.

Some of the women are divorced, others married. Celebacy or sexual orientation is not considered, but years of religious study is a prerequisite, Birch-Conery said.

Once ordained, the women will not lead a flock or perform liturgies, but Birch-Conery has already been invited to talk about her faith with several small groups.

"We know we may be discredited. But, levels of faith expression have opened for me that I didn't have before. It's a calling for me," she said. "We'll just have to see if this leads to change."

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God Conquers

Ya, I'm soooooo glad their conference is a 5 minute drive from my house.

*excess sarcasm spills over the sides of the post*



I KNOW the Archbishop knows about this...

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[quote name='God Conquers' date='Jun 8 2005, 11:52 PM']Ya, I'm soooooo glad their conference is a 5 minute drive from my house.

*excess sarcasm spills over the sides of the post*
I KNOW the Archbishop knows about this...
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[/quote]

Hehe, all the interesting you could make :ph34r:

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[color=blue]I think I understand why these women feel they need to make an example of themselves - that they, in Joan of Arc fashion, are sacrificing acceptance in the Church for what they believe is right for it...but...

what I don't understand about the reasoning of these women is this: If they truly, honestly were so faithful to the Catholic Church that they would want to lead ecclesiastical lives and become priests themselves, wouldn't they realize that the biggest act of faith for them would be to trust in the teachings of the Church no matter how hard it was for them to believe in them?

If they have the faith enough to move mountains, wouldn't they realize that sometimes, the biggest mountain you couldn't ever move is the one you're standing on and can't see?

They are chosing excommunication from the Church they want to lead rather than following the teachings of that Church they so vehemently adhere to! That... I do not understand. [/color]

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KizlarAgha

These women are nothing like Ste. Jehanne d'Arc. They are behaving disgracefully. What they're doing has absolutely no validity and is really downright silly. I suppose we can only pray for them as we do for other non-catholics.

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Ash Wednesday

I wonder if Papa Ratzi will get to issue the first excommunications of his papacy.

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KizlarAgha

[quote name='Ash Wednesday' date='Jun 9 2005, 12:11 AM']I wonder if Papa Ratzi will get to issue the first excommunications of his papacy.
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[/quote]

I hope so.

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BeenaBobba

I just saw the headline for that on Yahoo, and steam is still coming out of my ears. Who do they think they are?!!

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[quote name='KizlarAgha' date='Jun 8 2005, 11:07 PM']These women are nothing like Ste. Jehanne d'Arc.  They are behaving disgracefully.  What they're doing has absolutely no validity and is really downright silly.  I suppose we can only pray for them as we do for other non-catholics.
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[/quote]

that would be soooooo sweet :drool:

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Defiance of the Church cannot be constructive. These woman cannot be leaders in a Church wihtout respecting the authority of this Church. Their choice and actions are hurtful to the Roman Catholic faith and it would be better had they simply left the church and become protestants.

Have you guys/girls seen how fragile the protestant church has come to be these days? Especially in Great Britain and the US? This fragility, I believe, stems from just this sort of disrespect.

Stand firm Benedict XVI, we stand with you.

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cmotherofpirl

If they go thru with it, they have excommunicated themselves. The local bishop need merely confirm it.

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[quote name='IXpenguin21' date='Jun 8 2005, 11:49 PM'][url="http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050608/lf_afp/canadavaticanwomenpriests_050608155049"]http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050608/lf_af...ts_050608155049[/url]

Nine women, including one Canadian and one American, plan to defy the Vatican and become the first female Roman Catholic priests and deacons ordained in North America during a ceremony on a boat on the St. Lawrence River next month.

The ceremony, which is not sanctioned by the Vatican, is to take place July 25 on the river near Gananoque in eastern Canada following a conference on women as priests at Carleton University in Ottawa.

The location for the ceremony was chosen because organizers considered it to be international waters between the United States and Canada where no diocese has juridiction and thus cannot interfere.

"I only have my faith and my hope and what the global scene says to me that I believe it's time to take this step," said former nun Michele Birch-Conery, 65, who was ordained as a deacon last year in Europe. She will be the first Canadian woman to be ordained as a priest next month.

"It is an immensely wounding part in our Catholic history to block women's ecclesiastical participation in orders. I think people have been closed to a deeper, fuller expression of their faith by having, in the hierarchy and levels of authority and decision-making, a male-only church," she said.

Fourteen women have already been ordained in similar river ceremonies in Europe in recent years and 65 others are planning to join their ranks soon.

The Vatican has refused to allow women becoming priests and reacted by excommunicating the first seven women ordained on the Danube River between Germany and Austria in 2003 after they refused to retract their vows.

But, two of the women, Christine Mayr-Lumetzberger of Austria and Gisela Forster of Germany, were later secretly ordained as bishops by their male counterparts in the Roman Catholic church, insists Birch-Conery.

The two women bishops will perform the St. Lawrence ordinations.

"This doesn't conform to the Catholic faith. Church teachings are clear: only men can be ordained," said Monseigneur Serge Poitras of the Apostolic Nunciature in Ottawa, noting that the former Pope John Paul II addressed the issue in 1994.

"People can do what they want. We don't have an army. We won't chase after them. All we can do is deplore such challenges to church doctrine and set the record straight," he said.

About 220 people will attend the ceremony and banquet aboard the boat which usually ferries tourists around the picturesque Thousand Islands on the St. Lawrence River.

Some of the women are divorced, others married. Celebacy or sexual orientation is not considered, but years of religious study is a prerequisite, Birch-Conery said.

Once ordained, the women will not lead a flock or perform liturgies, but Birch-Conery has already been invited to talk about her faith with several small groups.

"We know we may be discredited. But, levels of faith expression have opened for me that I didn't have before. It's a calling for me," she said. "We'll just have to see if this leads to change."
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In the eyes of the Church, they are not already nor will they be ordained. Those involved may think that they are being ordained, but the ceremony will be invalid as well as being non-Catholic. The women are missing part of the formula.

In order for a Sacrament to be valid, there must be three things that take place.

1) Matter
2) Form
3) Intent

Assuming that it is a validly consecrated bishop who genuinely wants this to happen, it still cannot be valid, because the matter is not present. That matter is a male person. The CIC and the enyclical Ordiantio Sacerdotalis speak to this.

The intent of the bishop may be to ordain these women, he may use the proper words of ordination, but the matter, the sex, of those to be ordained is improper. With that being the case, the ordination will be invalid. Therefore there will be no ordination.

However, since "women bishops" will perform the ordinations, two of the three criteria are not possible. Matter and Intent. Since the women cannot be ordained nor consecrated, they cannot have proper intent.

My advice, let this article and this thread die.....there can be nothing good that will come from it.

Cam

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FightingforGod

urg...but what i want to know, is how they are doing the ordinations. assuming that women could become priests, would the ordinations be valid bc they took place on a river? and which bishop would realistically assign these ladies a parish? im so naive about these things, but im trying...but just plain urg about the whole situation

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1337 k4th0l1x0r

Oh boy. They're doing this on my birthday. That's what I always wanted for my birthday.

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