To +Lydia+

[MParedon]

Hi! I saw the other thread and although I didn't read all the posts I [i]did[/i] want to respond to your Original Post.

Basically the question I want to respond to is that idea that maybe you might be following your own leanings towards mysticism and uniqueness rather than where the Lord is calling.

I have sort of some experiance in this. I was a nominal lapsed Catholic and I started looking into the Church a couple of years ago. At first I came away with 'AHA! The Catholic Church is right! Ha Ha Ha, Na Na Na Boo Boo!"
This was mainly because I grew up a Mexican-American Catholic in Mississippi..in the 80's..well, I hope that paints enough of a picture as to why I had that reaction.

Anyway, not all of my reaction was prideful stuff, I really felt more whole and just fell in love with what the Church taught. I found Christ in a way that I never even imagined about.

So, basically, after all this build-up (reading, internet, some Masses) I took the leap (Confession with true Examination of Conscience and Commitment to the Church) and I realized that I was leaping over an abyss, it was truly scary. I didn't realize how different my life would be and how differently I would have to look at life now (it was easier to agree with the Church online than to do so in the real world for me)

I guess the point I really wanted to make was, all those leanings and oohing and aahing over the mysiticm, uniqueness, the prideful stuff for me about the Church, etc...got burned up for me in my big leap. In the end, the other side of my leap was the Church and the Church was my Rock and that Rock contained all that of Christ given to us in the Eucharist.

phew, sorry I had to get that out.
I really struggled there for a while because I knew the Church was right, I just wanted to put it off and live this great secular life that I already had going on. I figured that I could become a practicing Catholic when I'm a little old lady....I thought that it would be easier that way. Of course, I was wrong, but it was a tough thing to realize. So by the time I worked through those struggles (my abyss) when I reached the other side (the Church) those niggling superfluous reasons for my misplaced pride where totally out of place now, they were just burned up.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is, if you do decide to make the big leap, even if you are totally fine with living out a non-secular life, your life will still change in some way and those struggles have a great way of giving perspective on your reasons for joining the Church.

--Mparedon

Edited June 25, 2005 by MParedon

[anchoress]

On a point of procedure, as a mere newcomer, I thought it was not allowed to reopen a thread that the moderator has closed? What is the point of closing a thread else?I will refrain from responding to the above until that is denied or affirmed. It could after all, all have gone as a PM
Blessings this summer night

[MParedon]

Oh, I sincerely apologize if I broke phorum rules. I really just wanted to respond to one aspect of the Original Post and not continue or even enter into any discussion on the reason the other thread was closed. If the Mod like, he/she can edit my post so that it doesn't reference the other thread and just has my story in it.

Again I apologize for anything I did that is wrong.

[Fides_et_Ratio]

MP, you're probably okay. The reason the thread was closed didn't have much to do with the OP (which you responded to). This thread will probably be fine so long as the rest of the responses don't derail into a thread that belongs on the debate board.

[+Lydia+]

MParedon - Thanks so much for your post! What you said about the draw to mysticism, but also the desire and joy of being at peace in the Church makes a lot of sense. Where I'm at right now still has a lot to do with understanding Church doctrine. Often I will have those "Aha!" moments (which you described), but I am more frequently visited with doubt, and I am in the process of working through that. That said, it is pretty weird that part of me almost feels as if I need to make that less important and just take that leap of faith b/c this whole search just has me really weary and longing for some peace.

Just one question about your post though. What did you mean when you said, "it was easier to agree with the Church online than to do so in the real world for me"? Do you mean this in terms of commitment, or something else altogether?

MG - Thanks for the invitating to continue on w/ our discussion of the Eucharist, I would love to do that... but maybe that should be another thread/board - what do you think?

Peace and many thanks!
+Lydia+

[anchoress]

MP, you're probably okay. The reason the thread was closed didn't have much to do with the OP (which you responded to). This thread will probably be fine so long as the rest of the responses don't derail into a thread that belongs on the debate board.

If truth has any part in this phorum, the reason the thread was closed was that I was asking questions that are very relevant but that no one wants to answer. Just as now all the posts are ignoring my existence. As I have come to expect of what someone on another thread has called bigots; not a word I like or usually use. It means someone who is so brainwashed that nothing else cane get into their heart and soul any more. This is achieved by repeating the same things over and over again,, and woe betide anyone who interrupts the process. And by telling folk that "I have something you do not" so often that they start wanting it!
Subtle psychological techniques indeed.

Just now, the deep mysticism that is at the heart of Christ i sout of fashion. And spiirtual cloning is " in". So instead of warm-hearted and loving talk that will bring pagans to Jesus, there is on boards like this, a narrow rigidity and closedness.
Which, thank Jesus, I find nowhere else in the catholic church .. small c there. Or for that matter in the Catholic Church; thank Jesus!

Following Jesus is a physical as well as spiritual thing; as all Monastics know.

Here are many people who have no identity; their profiles are empty and most quote only dogma and words and old papers. Not real people; empty files? words; without acts.... strange....

If they were real people, the caring would be there. for others.

And some real seekers also, like Lydia; bless you Lydia.,

Of course I am coming from a different place; a Christian mystic anchoress Nun with no secular life. And living a Sacramental life fully.

I bless you in Jesus . Lydia especially

[+Lydia+]

Anchoress - thank you kindly for your blessing and prayers. Please know that you are in mine also.

To reply to your post though, I agree with you that no one can ever be really sure about the things of God, but that we can only be steadfast in the faith He has given us. In my mind, this is really the problem with what's been going on throughout these posts. All of us are obviously on different paths in terms of where we are on our spiritual journey, and as such it is understandably difficult to see things from the same POV as everyone else. While that may be true, I believe it is also true that everyone has the right and duty to communicate what they understand the will of Jesus in their lives to be. Now, whether their beliefs are right or wrong, who am I to say? - so I certainly am not going to be the judge of anyone here, nor claim that they are closed minded. It is apparent to me that everyone here is trying to defend their faith and with the best of intentions. I urge everyone to keep in mind the ecumenical efforts of JPII. Although he was obviously steadfast in the Catholic faith, doctrine, dogma etc., that did not keep him from having a beautiful and respectful dialogue with other faiths and "denominations". His relationship with Billy Graham and the Jewish community come to mind.

What's more, I could be wrong, but doesn't the Catechism say that who is in God's grace and who will enter Heaven is not up to the Church but to God; that we do not have the tools to measure this? This alone, I think, should settle this whole argument about the CC being closed-minded, as it is in the Catechism that there are things that the Church simply cannot make any judgment about, b/c they haven't been cleared to do that. (If I'm wrong about this, could someone please correct me?)

In sum, I think it is very important to both share our experiences of Jesus, but also to work together to better our understanding of church teaching. Surely there can be a place for that without it being considered unnecessary (right word?) or closed minded?

I hope I have not been out of line w/ this post and that I have not offended anyone, b/c I empathize with everyone here. In terms of this board's policies, b/c I'm new to Phatmass, if this is not in keeping w/ proper protocol please correct me if I'm wrong. Should this be a new thread at the debate table? If not please let me know if I'm in the wrong, and I'll do my best to avoid any similar mistakes in the future.

Peace
+Lydia+

[PedroX]

I am a bit uncertain as to what to do in this case.

The last thread was closed because it no longer belonged in the "Converts Anonymous" page, but rather in the "Debate Table" section.

That being said, it is usually considered pushing your luck to open another thread in response to a closed thread. I realize many of you are new here, so no big deal...this time!

Please, all of you, bear in mind that this section is for those who are interested in converting to Catholicism, or who have converted and are interested in support from fellow converts and cradle Catholics alike. This is not a section to work out problems you have with doctrine from the Magisterium, unless said doctrines present an obstacle to your conversion. The Debate Table is where you work out doctrinal problems.

The mods will be keeping a close eye on the situation.

peace...

[homeschoolmom]

What he said...

[+Lydia+]

Thanks for the clarification. I didn't really intend to keep this going here, I just wanted to respond to MParedon's response to my original thread which was specifically about my conversion issues. Although it did seem a little out of place I did feel it was important to respond to Anchoress' post as well because I think that the whole issue just needed to come to a peaceful close for everybody, or at the very least be taken elsewhere on the phorum if it can't be settled here.

[MParedon]

[quote]Just one question about your post though. What did you mean when you said, "it was easier to agree with the Church online than to do so in the real world for me"? Do you mean this in terms of commitment, or something else altogether?
[/quote]

For me it was easier to agree with the Church online and in my head rather than the real-world so to speak because of actual changes in practice in my life, like actually having to change the manner of my dress (that might not sound difficult but I'm not exactly a diligent person so it's easy to slip into old habits), always attending Mass (even though I wanted to, for example on vacation with family it would have created a big fuss I was not prepared to defend going to Mass early Sunday morning), having conversations with friends and realizing that I either have to challenge all the other statements, be silent, or change the subject and it's really hard to know what to do. Basically, my whole viewpoint had changed and it was really difficult in how to incorporate that in my life now.
I fostered a secular life not in line with Catholicism throughout my teenage and early 20s so now the big difficulty is finding a way to be a practicing Catholic when I'm not accustomed to it.

For a person that is already religious, then the change is different and the difficulties are not the same, but I think we share a certain struggle. The leap/jump (as I like to call it) is scary and we don't have all the answers before leaping. I guess what I want to reassure you about (lol, I hope I'm even just a [i]smidge[/i] reassuring) is that during the actual leap, things for me got very clarified.